Calciopoli

Calciopoli

am 14.07.2006 21:13:59 von Goldmund

Juventus: relegated to Serie B, 30 points of penalization
Lazio: relegated to Serie B, 7 points of penalization
Fiorentina: relegated to Serie B, 12 points of penalization
Milan: remains in Series A, but 15 points of penalization

Re: Calciopoli

am 14.07.2006 21:25:12 von Victoria Barrett

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:13:59 +0200, Goldmund <>
wrote:

>Juventus: relegated to Serie B, 30 points of penalization

And they cannot participate in Champions League either.

>Lazio: relegated to Serie B, 7 points of penalization
>Fiorentina: relegated to Serie B, 12 points of penalization
>Milan: remains in Series A, but 15 points of penalization

YAY!!!!

God, Milan are lucky. *gg*

--

Re: Calciopoli

am 14.07.2006 22:53:06 von arvind_c_98

Victoria Barrett wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:13:59 +0200, Goldmund <>
> wrote:
>
> >Juventus: relegated to Serie B, 30 points of penalization
>
> And they cannot participate in Champions League either.
>
> >Lazio: relegated to Serie B, 7 points of penalization
> >Fiorentina: relegated to Serie B, 12 points of penalization
> >Milan: remains in Series A, but 15 points of penalization
>
> YAY!!!!
>
> God, Milan are lucky. *gg*
>
> --
>

So will anyone be named winners for the past 2 years in Serie A?. Any
links to how they came to this judgment?.

-Aravind

Re: Calciopoli

am 14.07.2006 23:59:31 von ackthpt

Futbolmetrix wrote:
> "Jughead" <> wrote in message
> news:
> > So will anyone be named winners for the past 2 years in Serie A?. Any
> > links to how they came to this judgment?.
> >
>
> You can read the full verdict at:
>
>
>
> It's in legalese Italian, so good luck.
>
> I've skimmed over the 154 pages and here are some interesting points:
>
> - The judges thought that there was not enough proof that the referee draw
> was physically rigged (warm balls/ cold balls), that kind of stuff.
>
> - The judges explicitly state that there was no "system" or "cupola";
> rather, everybody was tring to act in his own interest. This implicitly
> means that the ordinary justice trial against Moggi, Giraudo and co. on the
> charges of "associazione a delinquere" is hopeless.
>
> - Juve was found guilty of trying to directly alter the course of only one
> match. However, the judges thought that all the evidence taken together
> indicated that Moggi and Giraudo had a continuous relationship with the
> referee bosses, which violated the principles of loyalty and impartiality,
> and was designed to help Juve in the standings. The continuity and
> reiteration of this relationship is what led to the severe punishment
> inflicted on Juve.

If it were not for the loss of potential income this really would not
be so severe. Now that there is big money in football the stakes are
greater and a high profile club could (a la Leeds United) find
themselves rebuilding for a considerable time.

> - The judges appreciated the fact that the Juve lawyers were cooperative,
> recognized the legality of the court, and that the club had fired the old
> management that was guilty of all the wrongdoing. This led them to mitigate
> their verdict against Juve.

Meaning: The judges could have dropped Juve into Serie C, as the
prosecutor recommended. Upon appeal this could be waved under their
noses.

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 00:46:44 von Futbolmetrix

"Jughead" <> wrote in message
news:
> So will anyone be named winners for the past 2 years in Serie A?. Any
> links to how they came to this judgment?.
>

You can read the full verdict at:



It's in legalese Italian, so good luck.

I've skimmed over the 154 pages and here are some interesting points:

- The judges thought that there was not enough proof that the referee draw
was physically rigged (warm balls/ cold balls), that kind of stuff.

- The judges explicitly state that there was no "system" or "cupola";
rather, everybody was tring to act in his own interest. This implicitly
means that the ordinary justice trial against Moggi, Giraudo and co. on the
charges of "associazione a delinquere" is hopeless.

- Juve was found guilty of trying to directly alter the course of only one
match. However, the judges thought that all the evidence taken together
indicated that Moggi and Giraudo had a continuous relationship with the
referee bosses, which violated the principles of loyalty and impartiality,
and was designed to help Juve in the standings. The continuity and
reiteration of this relationship is what led to the severe punishment
inflicted on Juve.

- The judges appreciated the fact that the Juve lawyers were cooperative,
recognized the legality of the court, and that the club had fired the old
management that was guilty of all the wrongdoing. This led them to mitigate
their verdict against Juve.


Daniele

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 01:31:46 von ruud

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:46:44 +0200, "Futbolmetrix"
<> wrote:

>You can read the full verdict at:

[...]

thanks

Any likelihood of an appeal or is that the end of it? Not familiar
with the Italian legal system.

Do we know what clubs are in the Serie A next season?

Do the players of relegated clubs now have the right to protect their
careers and automatically leave the club, or are they still contracted
to play Serie B whether they like it or not? Any likelihood the clubs
will want to protect their own interests by keeping the players, or
will they be nice about it?

Less important: When will the competition start and when will the draw
be released?

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 01:39:52 von Coppernob

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:31:46 GMT, ruud <> wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:46:44 +0200, "Futbolmetrix"
><> wrote:
>
>>You can read the full verdict at:
>
>[...]
>
>thanks
>
>Any likelihood of an appeal or is that the end of it? Not familiar
>with the Italian legal system.
Appeals may be of two kinds. A "Sporting tribunal" appeal 9almost
certain that all 4 will do so., And a judicial one to the TAR An
appellate court.

Here is where it can get extremely messy because the TAR 's level and
requirement of proof is much higher that the sports tribunal. Also
their timelines tre very slow.

Uefa wants a list by the 25th, making possible only a quick sports
appeal, but even that might not be completed by then.

Long and short of it? It is still a huge mess. For CL assume at 90%
the teams will be Inter, Chievo, palermo and Roma. For Uefa Milan
might squeeze in because the tribunal thought that penalizing Milan 44
points and pushing them 7th would do it. However they forgot that
Empoli does not have a UEFA licence.

For the relegation, and points of penalization i don't think things
will be cleared up until august at the earliest.


>Do we know what clubs are in the Serie A next season?

As of now:

ASCOLI
ATALANTA
CAGLIARI
CATANIA
CHIEVO
EMPOLI
INTER
LECCE
LIVORNO
MESSINA
MILAN (-15 punti)
PALERMO
PARMA
REGGINA
ROMA
SAMPDORIA
SIENA
TORINO
TREVISO
UDINESE
>
>Do the players of relegated clubs now have the right to protect their
>careers and automatically leave the club, or are they still contracted
>to play Serie B whether they like it or not? Any likelihood the clubs
>will want to protect their own interests by keeping the players, or
>will they be nice about it?

Juve will sell because they cannot afford the salaries and loss of CL
income. Milan will hold on to players as , although they are out of CL
they got a boatload for Sheva, and Berlusconi's pockets are deeper
than Juve's shareholders. Lazio was always a skinflint so will sell.
Firoentina will probably capitalize a nd sell Toni.


>
>Less important: When will the competition start and when will the draw
>be released?

Not until end of august

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 01:42:10 von Rolleston

Coppernob <> writes:
> Appeals may be of two kinds. A "Sporting tribunal" appeal 9almost
> certain that all 4 will do so., And a judicial one to the TAR An
> appellate court.

RSS can deal with this as a court of final appeal.

R.

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 01:57:22 von Goldmund

On 14 Jul 2006 14:59:31 -0700, "Richard Adams"
<> wrote:


>Meaning: The judges could have dropped Juve into Serie C, as the
>prosecutor recommended. Upon appeal this could be waved under their
>noses.

The ironic thing is that Serie C was probably easier to win than
avoiding relegation in Serie B with 30 points of penalization.

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 04:06:00 von ackthpt

Goldmund wrote:

> On 14 Jul 2006 14:59:31 -0700, "Richard Adams"
> <> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Meaning: The judges could have dropped Juve into Serie C, as the
>>prosecutor recommended. Upon appeal this could be waved under their
>>noses.
>
>
> The ironic thing is that Serie C was probably easier to win than
> avoiding relegation in Serie B with 30 points of penalization.
>

Could also have been Serie C with -30 points. They wouldn't see Serie A
for three seasons.

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 05:53:35 von Diabolik

"Coppernob" <> wrote in message
news:
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:31:46 GMT, ruud <> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:46:44 +0200, "Futbolmetrix"
> ><> wrote:
> >
> >>You can read the full verdict at:
> >
> >[...]
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >Any likelihood of an appeal or is that the end of it? Not familiar
> >with the Italian legal system.
> Appeals may be of two kinds. A "Sporting tribunal" appeal 9almost
> certain that all 4 will do so., And a judicial one to the TAR An
> appellate court.
>
> Here is where it can get extremely messy because the TAR 's level and
> requirement of proof is much higher that the sports tribunal. Also
> their timelines tre very slow.
>
> Uefa wants a list by the 25th, making possible only a quick sports
> appeal, but even that might not be completed by then.
>
> Long and short of it? It is still a huge mess. For CL assume at 90%
> the teams will be Inter, Chievo, palermo and Roma. For Uefa Milan
> might squeeze in because the tribunal thought that penalizing Milan 44
> points and pushing them 7th would do it. However they forgot that
> Empoli does not have a UEFA licence.

Ole'!
Milan have never won an Uefa cup, now is the time.

Re: Calciopoli

am 15.07.2006 21:58:27 von arvind_c_98

Futbolmetrix wrote:
> "Jughead" <> wrote in message
> news:
> > So will anyone be named winners for the past 2 years in Serie A?. Any
> > links to how they came to this judgment?.
> >
>
> You can read the full verdict at:
>
>
>
> It's in legalese Italian, so good luck.
>
> I've skimmed over the 154 pages and here are some interesting points:
>
> - The judges thought that there was not enough proof that the referee draw
> was physically rigged (warm balls/ cold balls), that kind of stuff.
>
> - The judges explicitly state that there was no "system" or "cupola";
> rather, everybody was tring to act in his own interest. This implicitly
> means that the ordinary justice trial against Moggi, Giraudo and co. on the
> charges of "associazione a delinquere" is hopeless.
>
> - Juve was found guilty of trying to directly alter the course of only one
> match. However, the judges thought that all the evidence taken together
> indicated that Moggi and Giraudo had a continuous relationship with the
> referee bosses, which violated the principles of loyalty and impartiality,
> and was designed to help Juve in the standings. The continuity and
> reiteration of this relationship is what led to the severe punishment
> inflicted on Juve.
>
> - The judges appreciated the fact that the Juve lawyers were cooperative,
> recognized the legality of the court, and that the club had fired the old
> management that was guilty of all the wrongdoing. This led them to mitigate
> their verdict against Juve.
>
>
> Daniele

What are the chances that based on an appeal, that their punishments
might be mitigated like say, reduce the number of points deducted to 15
or 10 or something like that?.

-Aravind

Re: Calciopoli

am 16.07.2006 00:20:04 von Benny

> Subject : Calciopoli
> From : ruud <>

>thanks
>
>Any likelihood of an appeal or is that the end of it? Not familiar
>with the Italian legal system.

They will be appeals but the only one with potential to be successful is
Milan's appeal against the ludicrous 44 point deduction for last season.


Rss feed :

Re: Calciopoli

am 16.07.2006 01:24:42 von Manuel

Richard Adams wrote:
>
> If it were not for the loss of potential income this really would not
> be so severe. Now that there is big money in football the stakes are
> greater and a high profile club could (a la Leeds United) find
> themselves rebuilding for a considerable time.

Obviously the loss of money is not that big of a deal either 'cause
this is the second time Fiorentina finds itself in a similar situation
(being dropped from Serie A for mismanagement or corrupt management,
take your pick).

This veredict is an insult. Nothing more than a slap in the wrist.
Milan doesn't even get to go to Serie B despite the fact that the judge
found enough evidence to take points away. By the end of next season
these teams will be back in Serie A and it will be business as usual.
This stuff has been happening for years and the benefits far outweighed
the cost of spending one year in Serie B. And if it's happening in
Serie A where which is under the umbrela of Italian law enforcement one
must wonder what else is going on out of borders in the UEFA and FIFA
competitions where no one is watching.

The message that this sends is that it's OK to fix matches. You may be
caught and if you do you'll get nothing more than 1 year in Serie B.
Pathetic. Only in Italy.

- Manuel.