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#1: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-12 21:03:01 by Gary Collard

John wrote:
>
&gt; &quot;MB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:PoetUNoet&#64;iwon.com" target="_blank">PoetUNoet&#64;iwon.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:AO3rg.296$<a href="mailto:x93.281&#64;fe05.lga..." target="_blank">x93.281&#64;fe05.lga...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Marcus Kwan wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:35:00 GMT, &quot;greg brown&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:noway&#64;way.com" target="_blank">noway&#64;way.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;I'm talking about your team's inability to win back to back
&gt; chmpionships.
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;Here Tim Duncan has a chance to put an end forever to the crys that Shaq
&gt; was
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;always better, and what does he do, turn the tables on us and usher &quot;fat
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;boy&quot; into another championship.
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; This is your standard. You miss the point I am making. Your
&gt; &gt; &gt; arbitrary standard is that only back to backs matter, and all other
&gt; &gt; &gt; accomplsihments are inferior. This is absurd.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; There is winning. Being one of thirty teams at the start of a
&gt; &gt; season and beating out all of them to be the last one standing at
&gt; &gt; season's end.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Then there is winning as the favorite, when you're defending what
&gt; &gt; you've just won and all eyes are focusing a target on your back.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Then there's repeating that feat to make it three in a row.
&gt;
&gt; You shouldn't mention the 80's Celtics with the 2000 Lakers in the same
&gt; breath.

Thsi is tue, because the 2000's Lakers, unlike the 80's Celtics, were the
best team in their own league.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
<a href="mailto:gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com</a>
<a href="http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/</a>

&quot;I think the Republican Party has few allies more effective than
the Daily Kos.&quot; -- Newt Gingrich

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#2: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-13 00:49:12 by John

&quot;Gary Collard&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com..." target="_blank">44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; You shouldn't mention the 80's Celtics with the 2000 Lakers in the same
&gt; &gt; breath.
&gt;
&gt; Thsi is tue, because the 2000's Lakers, unlike the 80's Celtics, were the
&gt; best team in their own league.

No, the '80's Celtics had to battle the '80's Sixers and the '80's Lakers
and all three were better than the 2000's Lakers.

The 2000 Lakers battled nothing but mediocrity once the Jazz got old and
quit kicking their asses out of the playoffs.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Gary Collard
&gt; SABR-L Moderator
&gt; <a href="mailto:gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com</a>
&gt; <a href="http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;I think the Republican Party has few allies more effective than
&gt; the Daily Kos.&quot; -- Newt Gingrich

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#3: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:03:10 by MB

John wrote:

&gt; &quot;Gary Collard&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com..." target="_blank">44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;You shouldn't mention the 80's Celtics with the 2000 Lakers in the same
&gt;&gt;&gt;breath.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Thsi is tue, because the 2000's Lakers, unlike the 80's Celtics, were the
&gt;&gt;best team in their own league.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No, the '80's Celtics had to battle the '80's Sixers and the '80's Lakers
&gt; and all three were better than the 2000's Lakers.
&gt;
&gt; The 2000 Lakers battled nothing but mediocrity once the Jazz got old and
&gt; quit kicking their asses out of the playoffs.

Spurs were pretty good. And in 2001, the Lakers only made one of
history's toughest roads to a championship (four 50-win teams) LOOK easy.

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#4: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:15:13 by John

&quot;MB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:PoetUNoet&#64;iwon.com" target="_blank">PoetUNoet&#64;iwon.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:e6aug.604$<a href="mailto:AP3.309&#64;fe06.lga..." target="_blank">AP3.309&#64;fe06.lga...</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; John wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &quot;Gary Collard&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">gmcollard&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; &gt; news:<a href="mailto:44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com..." target="_blank">44B54765.CBE15EBB&#64;yahoo.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;You shouldn't mention the 80's Celtics with the 2000 Lakers in the same
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;breath.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;Thsi is tue, because the 2000's Lakers, unlike the 80's Celtics, were
the
&gt; &gt;&gt;best team in their own league.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; No, the '80's Celtics had to battle the '80's Sixers and the '80's
Lakers
&gt; &gt; and all three were better than the 2000's Lakers.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The 2000 Lakers battled nothing but mediocrity once the Jazz got old and
&gt; &gt; quit kicking their asses out of the playoffs.
&gt;
&gt; Spurs were pretty good. And in 2001, the Lakers only made one of
&gt; history's toughest roads to a championship (four 50-win teams) LOOK easy.

Who were history's dynasties of the era? No '60's Celtics, 70's Knicks,
Lakers, no 80's Lakers, Bucks, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons, no 90's Bulls or
Rockets. It looks like the Lakers benefited from a post-Jordan hangover of
mediocrity.

&gt;

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#5: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-15 23:26:33 by Peter Kelly

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:15:13 -0600, &quot;John&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:John&#64;earthlink.com" target="_blank">John&#64;earthlink.com</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;
&gt;Who were history's dynasties of the era? No '60's Celtics, 70's Knicks,
&gt;Lakers, no 80's Lakers, Bucks, Celtics, Sixers or Pistons, no 90's Bulls or
&gt;Rockets. It looks like the Lakers benefited from a post-Jordan hangover of
&gt;mediocrity.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
If you are talking about a post Jordan hangover, how can you include
the Rockets? Their only claim to fame is keeping the trophy warm
while Jordan was playing baseball. What did they before, or since?

Lakers benefited from a Shaquille at the end of his prime and a Kobe
Bryant entering his prime. And Phil Jackson riding in on his horse,
pretending that 'not calling a timeout' is mystical coaching. They
were the best team for a few years, undoubtedly. But two superstars
in their prime is tough to beat, because very few teams have 2
superstars in their prime.

You not only need to suck to get into the lottery, but you need to
suck in the right year. Even then, there's no guarantee (see Eddie
Griffen). So, your best bet is to suck for many years (see
rockettes), and then hope that your first or second lottery pick is a
late bloomer, so you can suck for a couple more years and still get
more lottery picks (see Spurs and David Robinson with his military
obligation). Then, everything comes together at the same time,
assuming management hasn't traded away early picks for a PR move.

Personally, I think the days of dynasties are over. A firmer salary
cap, coupled with the CBA that gives drafting teams a leg up in
keeping their own players, makes it tough to get multiple superstars
onto the same team. The top echelon of the NBA isn't separated by
much. Nothing but a ref's call, a bad bounce or a twisted ankle. Or
the occasional bone-headed move by player of coach.
Spurs lose to the Mavs, but matched up much better against the Heat.
Pistons lose the Heat, but would have quite possibly beaten the Mavs,
also. Cavs may have given the Heat matchup problems in the ECF.

You know what? It's just hard to win a championship.

Peter
--
&quot;There are two good teams in Texas. We have the third.&quot;
- Charlie Palillo discussing the NBA
- Houston Sports Talk radio host 790AM

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#6: Re: Horry says Dull Harris and Cuban are whiners

Posted on 2006-07-16 06:08:07 by John

&quot;Peter Kelly&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:no-spam&#64;satx.rr.com" target="_blank">no-spam&#64;satx.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:3jlib25kc48p30vobvqjnt6bg6094rguse&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">3jlib25kc48p30vobvqjnt6bg6094rguse&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Personally, I think the days of dynasties are over.

Nope. You are one Jordan away from a dynasty at anytime. Shaq, Kobe, Wade,
Hakeem are all hall of famers but one Jordan (and an excellent player) with
role players will be the next dynasty.

&gt;A firmer salary
&gt; cap, coupled with the CBA that gives drafting teams a leg up in
&gt; keeping their own players, makes it tough to get multiple superstars
&gt; onto the same team. The top echelon of the NBA isn't separated by
&gt; much. Nothing but a ref's call, a bad bounce or a twisted ankle. Or
&gt; the occasional bone-headed move by player of coach.
&gt; Spurs lose to the Mavs, but matched up much better against the Heat.
&gt; Pistons lose the Heat, but would have quite possibly beaten the Mavs,
&gt; also. Cavs may have given the Heat matchup problems in the ECF.
&gt;
&gt; You know what? It's just hard to win a championship.

For merely mortal teams it is.
&gt;
&gt; Peter
&gt; --
&gt; &quot;There are two good teams in Texas. We have the third.&quot;
&gt; - Charlie Palillo discussing the NBA
&gt; - Houston Sports Talk radio host 790AM

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