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Sports » rec.sport.boxing » Re: a boxing tournament online
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086746] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 06:51 |
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The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>
>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>
> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
> it were and continue to be phony.
>
A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why we are in
a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in 1991. There is
nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on in Iraq..unless one
pretends that the previous 15 years never really happened.
> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever. There
> are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>
> And Bush is one of them.
Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086750 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 09:25 |
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"Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:0ZKdnUCNY-T7sy7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>
>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
>> it were and continue to be phony.
>>
>
> A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why we are
> in a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in 1991. There
> is nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on in Iraq..unless one
> pretends that the previous 15 years never really happened.
>
>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever. There
>> are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>
>> And Bush is one of them.
>
> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
That's cool with me. You and I will stick to boxing. We get along much
better that way. At time, you're even pleasant. 8-)
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086752 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 11:34 |
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The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
> "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0ZKdnUCNY-T7sy7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>>>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
>>> it were and continue to be phony.
>>>
>>
>> A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why
>> we are in a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in
>> 1991. There is nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on
>> in Iraq..unless one pretends that the previous 15 years never really
>> happened.
>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever.
>>> There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>
>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>
>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
>
> That's cool with me. You and I will stick to boxing. We get along
> much better that way. At time, you're even pleasant. 8-)
Indeed. Boxing is more gentlemenly anyhow. Too bad we can't just settle
international differences by having the leaders of our nations go at it in
an Octagon. I think W would lay the smackdown on Saddam.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086757 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 14:40 |
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:51:44 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
<C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>
>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
>> it were and continue to be phony.
>>
>
>A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why we are in
>a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in 1991. There is
>nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on in Iraq..unless one
>pretends that the previous 15 years never really happened.
The "reasons" for the war were a link between Iraq and 9/11 and WMDs.
Both were lies.
>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever. There
>> are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>
>> And Bush is one of them.
>
>Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that are
over 10 years old.
How about these for more current quotes...
"I think — tide turning — see, as I remember — I was raised in the
desert, but tides kind of — it's easy to see a tide turn — did I say
those words?" —George W. Bush, asked if the tide was turning in Iraq,
Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006
President Bush: "Peter. Are you going to ask that question with shades
on?"
Peter Wallsten of the Los Angeles Times: "I can take them off."
Bush: "I'm interested in the shade look, seriously."
Wallsten: "All right, I'll keep it, then."
Bush: "For the viewers, there's no sun."
Wallsten: "I guess it depends on your perspective."
Bush: "Touché.
—An exchange with legally blind reporter Peter Wallsten, to whom Bush
later apologized, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006 (Watch video clip)
"I tell people, let's don't fear the future, let's shape it." —George
W. Bush, Omaha, Neb., June 7, 2006
"Trying to stop suiciders — which we're doing a pretty good job of on
occasion — is difficult to do. And what the Iraqis are going to have
to eventually do is convince those who are conducting suiciders who
are not inspired by Al Qaeda, for example, to realize there's a
peaceful tomorrow." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 24, 2006
"I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
largemouth bass in my lake." —George W. Bush, on his best moment in
office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
2006
"If people want to get to know me better, they've got to know my
parents and the values my parents instilled in me, and the fact that I
was raised in West Texas, in the middle of the desert, a long way away
from anywhere, hardly. There's a certain set of values you learn in
that experience." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"You never know what your history is going to be like until long after
you're gone." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals.
And one such goal is a democracy in Germany." —George W. Bush, D.C.,
May 5, 2006
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The
interesting thing about him is that I read three — three or four books
about him last year. Isn't that interesting?" —George W. Bush, while
showing German newspaper reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office,
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"Finally, the desk, where we'll have our picture taken in front of --
is nine other Presidents used it. This was given to us by Queen
Victoria in the 1870s, I think it was. President Roosevelt put the
door in so people would not know he was in a wheelchair. John Kennedy
put his head out the door." —George W. Bush, showing German newspaper
reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"That's called, A Charge To Keep, based upon a religious hymn. The
hymn talks about serving God. The president's job is never to promote
a religion." —George W. Bush, showing German newspaper reporter Kai
Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
"I was not pleased that Hamas has refused to announce its desire to
destroy Israel." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2006
"I can look you in the eye and tell you I feel I've tried to solve the
problem diplomatically to the max, and would have committed troops
both in Afghanistan and Iraq knowing what I know today." —George W.
Bush, Irvine, Calif., April 24, 2006
"I aim to be a competitive nation." —George W. Bush, San Jose, Calif.,
April 21, 2006
"I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for
Don Rumsfeld to remain as the Secretary of Defense." —George W. Bush,
Washington, D.C. April 18, 2006 (Listen to audio clip; Watch video
clip)
"I strongly believe what we're doing is the right thing. If I didn't
believe it — I'm going to repeat what I said before — I'd pull the
troops out, nor if I believed we could win, I would pull the troops
out." —George W. Bush, Charlotte, N.C., April 6, 2006
"No question that the enemy has tried to spread sectarian violence.
They use violence as a tool to do that." —George W. Bush, Washington,
D.C., March 22, 2006
"If the Iranians were to have a nuclear weapon they could
proliferate." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., March 21, 2006
"After the bombing, most Iraqis saw what the perpetuators of this
attack were trying to do." —George W. Bush, on the bombing of the
Golden Mosque of Samarra in Iraq, March 13, 2006, Washington, D.C.
"And so I'm for medical liability at the federal level." —George W.
Bush, on medical liability reform, Washington, D.C., March 10, 2006
"I believe that a prosperous, democratic Pakistan will be a steadfast
partner for America, a peaceful neighbor for India, and a force for
freedom and moderation in the Arab world." —George W. Bush, mistakenly
identifying Pakistan as an Arab country, Islamabad, Pakistan, March 3,
2006
"People don't need to worry about security. This deal wouldn't go
forward if we were concerned about the security for the United States
of America." —George W. Bush, on the deal to hand over U.S. port
security to a company operated by the United Arab Emirates,
Washington, D.C., Feb. 23, 2006
"And I want those who are questioning it to step up and explain why
all of a sudden a Middle Eastern company is held to a different
standard than a Great British company." —George W. Bush, defending a
plan to allow a company controlled by the United Arab Emirates to
manage ports in the United States, aboard Air Force One, Feb. 21, 2006
"I think it's really important for this great state of baseball to
reach out to people of all walks of life to make sure that the sport
is inclusive. The best way to do it is to convince little kids how
to—the beauty of playing baseball." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
Feb. 13, 2006
"I like my buddies from west Texas. I liked them when I was young, I
liked them then I was middle-age, I liked them before I was president,
and I like them during president, and I like them after president."
—George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Feb. 1, 2006
"He was a state sponsor of terror. In other words, the government had
declared, you are a state sponsor of terror." —George W. Bush, on
Saddam Hussein, Manhattan, Kan., Jan. 23, 2006
"I'll be glad to talk about ranching, but I haven't seen the movie.
I've heard about it. I hope you go — you know — I hope you go back to
the ranch and the farm is what I'm about to say." —George W. Bush,
after being asked whether he's seen Brokeback Mountain, Manhattan,
Kan., Jan. 23, 2006
"It's a heck of a place to bring your family." —George W. Bush, on New
Orleans, New Orleans, La., Jan. 12, 2006
"You took an oath to defend our flag and our freedom, and you kept
that oath underseas and under fire." —George W. Bush, addressing war
veterans, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2006
"As you can possibly see, I have an injury myself — not here at the
hospital, but in combat with a cedar. I eventually won. The cedar gave
me a little scratch. As a matter of fact, the Colonel asked if I
needed first aid when she first saw me. I was able to avoid any major
surgical operations here, but thanks for your compassion, Colonel."
—George W. Bush, after visiting with wounded veterans from the Amputee
Care Center of Brooke Army Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas, Jan. 1,
2006
"[I]t's a myth to think I don't know what's going on. It's a myth to
think that I'm not aware that there's opinions that don't agree with
mine, because I'm fully aware of that." —George W. Bush, Philadelphia,
Pa., Dec. 12, 2005
"I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat,
as far as I-concerned." —George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
"I think we are welcomed. But it was not a peaceful welcome." —George
W. Bush, defending Vice President Dick Cheney's pre-war assertion that
the United States would be welcomed in Iraq as liberators, NBC Nightly
News interview, Dec. 12, 2005
"Those who enter the country illegally violate the law." —George W.
Bush, Tucson, Ariz., Nov. 28, 2005
"As a matter of fact, I know relations between our governments is
good." —George W. Bush, on U.S.-South Korean relations, Washington
D.C., Nov. 8, 2005
"Wow! Brazil is big." —George W. Bush, after being shown a map of
Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia,
Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005
"Bin Laden says his own role is to tell Muslims, quote, 'what is good
for them and what is not.'" —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Oct. 6,
2005
"I think it's important to bring somebody from outside the system, the
judicial system, somebody that hasn't been on the bench and,
therefore, there's not a lot of opinions for people to look at."
—George W. Bush, on the nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme
Court, Washington, D.C., October 4, 2005
"We look forward to hearing your vision, so we can more better do our
job. That's what I'm telling you." —George W. Bush, Gulfport, Miss.,
Sept. 20, 2005
"If it were to rain a lot, there is concern from the Army Corps of
Engineers that the levees might break. And so, therefore, we're
cautious about encouraging people to return at this moment of
history." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2005
"Listen, I want to thank leaders of the — in the faith — faith-based
and community-based community for being here." —George W. Bush,
Washington, D.C., Sept. 6, 2005
"So please give cash money to organizations that are directly involved
in helping save lives — save the life who had been affected by
Hurricane Katrina." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2005
"I can't wait to join you in the joy of welcoming neighbors back into
neighborhoods, and small businesses up and running, and cutting those
ribbons that somebody is creating new jobs." —George W. Bush,
Poplarville, Miss., Sept. 5, 2005
"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." —George W. Bush, to FEMA
director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over
his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005 (Listen to audio;
read more stupid quotes about Hurricane Katrina)
"We've got a lot of rebuilding to do. First, we're going to save lives
and stabilize the situation. And then we're going to help these
communities rebuild. The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see
it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf
Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house --
he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house.
And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." (Laughter) --George
W. Bush, touring hurricane damage, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
"My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." —George W. Bush, on
rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
"Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course
of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it." —George W.
Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 1, 2005
"It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly
devastating on the ground." —George W. Bush, turning to his aides
while surveying Hurricane Katrina flood damage from Air Force One ,
Aug. 31, 2005
"The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending
time investigating it." —George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA
agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18,
2005
"I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend."
—George W. Bush, on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005
"I was going to say he's a piece of work, but that might not translate
too well. Is that all right, if I call you a 'piece of work'?" —George
W. Bush to Jean-Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg,
Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005
"The relations with, uhh — Europe are important relations, and
they've, uhh — because, we do share values. And, they're universal
values, they're not American values or, you know — European values,
they're universal values. And those values — uhh — being universal,
ought to be applied everywhere." —George W. Bush, at a press
conference with European Union dignitaries, Washington, D.C., June 20,
2005
"You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the
attacks reminded us that we are at war." —George W. Bush, on the Sept.
11 attacks, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
"And the second way to defeat the terrorists is to spread freedom. You
see, the best way to defeat a society that is — doesn't have hope, a
society where people become so angry they're willing to become
suiciders, is to spread freedom, is to spread democracy." —George W.
Bush, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
"It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word
of — and the allegations — by people who were held in detention,
people who hate America, people that had been trained in some
instances to disassemble — that means not tell the truth." —George W.
Bush, on an Amnesty International report on prisoner abuse at
Guantanamo Bay, Washington, D.C., May 31, 2005 (Listen to audio)
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and
over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the
propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to
audio)
"We discussed the way forward in Iraq, discussed the importance of a
democracy in the greater Middle East in order to leave behind a
peaceful tomorrow." —George W. Bush, Tbilisi, Georgia, May 10, 2005
"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been
promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised,
benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." —George W.
Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2005
"It means your own money would grow better than that which the
government can make it grow. And that's important." —George W. Bush,
on what private accounts could do for Social Security funds, Falls
Church, Va., April 29, 2005
"I can only speak to myself." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April
28, 2005
"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us
and get them out of harm's way." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
April 28, 2005
"We expect the states to show us whether or not we're achieving simple
objectives — like literacy, literacy in math, the ability to read and
write." —George W. Bush, on federal education requirements,
Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
"He understands the need for a timely write of the constitution."
—George W. Bush, on Prime Minister Iyad Allawi of Iraq, Washington,
D.C., April 28, 2005
"Well, we've made the decision to defeat the terrorists abroad so we
don't have to face them here at home. And when you engage the
terrorists abroad, it causes activity and action." —George W. Bush,
Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
"But Iraq has — have got people there that are willing to kill, and
they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure
their future." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
"I appreciate my love for Laura." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
April 20, 2005
"We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also prevents an
environmental challenge." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 20,
2005
"Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the
facts is what you're going to do about it." —George W. Bush,
Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005
"I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I
enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me." —George W.
Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005
"We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will
make — it would hope — put a free press's mind at ease that you're not
being denied information you shouldn't see." —George W. Bush,
Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005
"I want to thank you for the importance that you've shown for
education and literacy." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13,
2005
"I understand there's a suspicion that we—we're too
security-conscience." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005
"If they pre-decease or die early, there's an asset base to be able to
pass on to a loved one." —George W. Bush, on Social Security money
held in private accounts, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, March 30, 2005
[I'm] occasionally reading, I want you to know, in the second term."
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
"In this job you've got a lot on your plate on a regular basis; you
don't have much time to sit around and wander, lonely, in the Oval
Office, kind of asking different portraits, 'How do you think my
standing will be?'" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
"In terms of timetables, as quickly as possible — whatever that
means." —George W. Bush, on his time frame for shoring up Social
Security, Washington D.C., March 16, 2005
"I like the idea of people running for office. There's a positive
effect when you run for office. Maybe some will run for office and
say, vote for me, I look forward to blowing up America. I don't know,
I don't know if that will be their platform or not. But it's -- I
don't think so. I think people who generally run for office say, vote
for me, I'm looking forward to fixing your potholes, or making sure
you got bread on the table." —George W. Bush, on elections in the
Middle East, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
"I repeat, personal accounts do not permanently fix the solution."
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
"This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is
simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the
table." —George W. Bush, Brussels, Belgium, Feb. 22, 2005
"If you're a younger person, you ought to be asking members of
Congress and the United States Senate and the president what you
intend to do about it. If you see a train wreck coming, you ought to
be saying, what are you going to do about it, Mr. Congressman, or
Madam Congressman?" —George W. Bush, Detroit, Mich., Feb. 8, 2005
"Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big
cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is
on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases
or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are
being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost
drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the
idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer
delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you?
It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the
— like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase
of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested
that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as
opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the
red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits
grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth
is affected, it will help on the red." —George W. Bush, explaining his
plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005
"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is
fantastic that you're doing that." —George W. Bush, to a divorced
mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005 (Listen to audio)
"After all, Europe is America's closest ally." —George W. Bush, Mainz,
Germany, Feb. 23, 2005
"Because he's hiding." —George W. Bush, responding to a reporter who
asked why Osama bin Laden had not been caught, aboard Air Force One,
Jan. 14, 2005
"I'm also mindful that man should never try to put words in God's
mouth. I mean, we should never ascribe natural disasters or anything
else to God. We are in no way, shape, or form should a human being,
play God." —George W. Bush, ABC's 20/20, Washington D.C., Jan. 14,
2005
"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for
your sacrifice." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
"I speak plainly sometimes, but you've got to be mindful of the
consequences of the words. So put that down. I don't know if you'd
call that a confession, a regret, something." —George W. Bush,
speaking to reporters, Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2005
"Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq
at this point in history?" —George W. Bush, at the white House,
Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005
"We need to apply 21st-century information technology to the health
care field. We need to have our medical records put on the I.T."
—George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005
"I believe we are called to do the hard work to make our communities
and quality of life a better place." —George W. Bush, Collinsville,
Ill., Jan. 5, 2005
Loki
To support our men and women overseas
who may not be getting packages from home,
you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
I encourage everyone to check it out,
respond from the heart, and pass it
along to anyone you think may want
to remember our overseas military personnel,
throughout the year.
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086786 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 05:11 |
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"Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:BfCdnVFuqfBt7S7ZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>
>> That's cool with me. You and I will stick to boxing. We get along
>> much better that way. At time, you're even pleasant. 8-)
>
> Indeed. Boxing is more gentlemenly anyhow. Too bad we can't just settle
> international differences by having the leaders of our nations go at it in
> an Octagon. I think W would lay the smackdown on Saddam.
Right on. Bush could always enlist the help of his friends from the Alabama
Air National Guard if he were to have run into any problems. ;->
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086849 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 01:50 |
|
The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
> "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:BfCdnVFuqfBt7S7ZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>>
>>> That's cool with me. You and I will stick to boxing. We get along
>>> much better that way. At time, you're even pleasant. 8-)
>>
>> Indeed. Boxing is more gentlemenly anyhow. Too bad we can't just
>> settle international differences by having the leaders of our
>> nations go at it in an Octagon. I think W would lay the smackdown
>> on Saddam.
>
> Right on. Bush could always enlist the help of his friends from the
> Alabama Air National Guard if he were to have run into any problems. ;->
Hell with that. Just get damned Cheney in there someplace and he'll shoot
all the sonsabitches and let Odin sortemout.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
|
|
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| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086850 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 01:55 |
|
Loki wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:51:44 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>>>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
>>> it were and continue to be phony.
>>>
>>
>> A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why
>> we are in a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in
>> 1991. There is nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on
>> in Iraq..unless one pretends that the previous 15 years never really
>> happened.
>
> The "reasons" for the war were a link between Iraq and 9/11 and WMDs.
> Both were lies.
>
There was never any argument fashioned to link Iraq to the 9/11 attacks.
That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in the
first place. As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify the
detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied. The UN never
acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war with Iraq from January
17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the invasion. In 2003 the time was
finally taken to force compliance. Since then hundreds of warheads have
been found. Evidence is clearly existent in the public domain that large
stores of Iraqi WMDs were moved in the final months before the
invasion...probably with assistance from some nations that really don't want
a major public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever.
>>> There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>
>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>
>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
>
> He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that are
> over 10 years old.
>
Interesting. You were the one firing up the nonsense about the AMAZING
CLINTON ECONOMY while trashing the present economy that looks suspiciously
identical to the best years under Clinton....except with stronger numbers
for small businesses and home ownership today.
> How about these for more current quotes...
>
> "I think - tide turning - see, as I remember - I was raised in the
> desert, but tides kind of - it's easy to see a tide turn - did I say
> those words?" -George W. Bush, asked if the tide was turning in Iraq,
> Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006
>
> President Bush: "Peter. Are you going to ask that question with shades
> on?"
> Peter Wallsten of the Los Angeles Times: "I can take them off."
> Bush: "I'm interested in the shade look, seriously."
> Wallsten: "All right, I'll keep it, then."
> Bush: "For the viewers, there's no sun."
> Wallsten: "I guess it depends on your perspective."
> Bush: "Touché.
> -An exchange with legally blind reporter Peter Wallsten, to whom Bush
> later apologized, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006 (Watch video clip)
>
> "I tell people, let's don't fear the future, let's shape it." -George
> W. Bush, Omaha, Neb., June 7, 2006
>
> "Trying to stop suiciders - which we're doing a pretty good job of on
> occasion - is difficult to do. And what the Iraqis are going to have
> to eventually do is convince those who are conducting suiciders who
> are not inspired by Al Qaeda, for example, to realize there's a
> peaceful tomorrow." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 24, 2006
>
> "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
> largemouth bass in my lake." -George W. Bush, on his best moment in
> office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
> 2006
>
> "If people want to get to know me better, they've got to know my
> parents and the values my parents instilled in me, and the fact that I
> was raised in West Texas, in the middle of the desert, a long way away
> from anywhere, hardly. There's a certain set of values you learn in
> that experience." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
>
> "You never know what your history is going to be like until long after
> you're gone." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
>
> "The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals.
> And one such goal is a democracy in Germany." -George W. Bush, D.C.,
> May 5, 2006
>
> "That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The
> interesting thing about him is that I read three - three or four books
> about him last year. Isn't that interesting?" -George W. Bush, while
> showing German newspaper reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office,
> Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
>
> "Finally, the desk, where we'll have our picture taken in front of --
> is nine other Presidents used it. This was given to us by Queen
> Victoria in the 1870s, I think it was. President Roosevelt put the
> door in so people would not know he was in a wheelchair. John Kennedy
> put his head out the door." -George W. Bush, showing German newspaper
> reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
>
> "That's called, A Charge To Keep, based upon a religious hymn. The
> hymn talks about serving God. The president's job is never to promote
> a religion." -George W. Bush, showing German newspaper reporter Kai
> Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006
>
> "I was not pleased that Hamas has refused to announce its desire to
> destroy Israel." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2006
>
> "I can look you in the eye and tell you I feel I've tried to solve the
> problem diplomatically to the max, and would have committed troops
> both in Afghanistan and Iraq knowing what I know today." -George W.
> Bush, Irvine, Calif., April 24, 2006
>
> "I aim to be a competitive nation." -George W. Bush, San Jose, Calif.,
> April 21, 2006
>
> "I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for
> Don Rumsfeld to remain as the Secretary of Defense." -George W. Bush,
> Washington, D.C. April 18, 2006 (Listen to audio clip; Watch video
> clip)
>
> "I strongly believe what we're doing is the right thing. If I didn't
> believe it - I'm going to repeat what I said before - I'd pull the
> troops out, nor if I believed we could win, I would pull the troops
> out." -George W. Bush, Charlotte, N.C., April 6, 2006
>
> "No question that the enemy has tried to spread sectarian violence.
> They use violence as a tool to do that." -George W. Bush, Washington,
> D.C., March 22, 2006
>
> "If the Iranians were to have a nuclear weapon they could
> proliferate." -George W. Bush, Washington D.C., March 21, 2006
>
> "After the bombing, most Iraqis saw what the perpetuators of this
> attack were trying to do." -George W. Bush, on the bombing of the
> Golden Mosque of Samarra in Iraq, March 13, 2006, Washington, D.C.
>
> "And so I'm for medical liability at the federal level." -George W.
> Bush, on medical liability reform, Washington, D.C., March 10, 2006
>
> "I believe that a prosperous, democratic Pakistan will be a steadfast
> partner for America, a peaceful neighbor for India, and a force for
> freedom and moderation in the Arab world." -George W. Bush, mistakenly
> identifying Pakistan as an Arab country, Islamabad, Pakistan, March 3,
> 2006
>
> "People don't need to worry about security. This deal wouldn't go
> forward if we were concerned about the security for the United States
> of America." -George W. Bush, on the deal to hand over U.S. port
> security to a company operated by the United Arab Emirates,
> Washington, D.C., Feb. 23, 2006
>
> "And I want those who are questioning it to step up and explain why
> all of a sudden a Middle Eastern company is held to a different
> standard than a Great British company." -George W. Bush, defending a
> plan to allow a company controlled by the United Arab Emirates to
> manage ports in the United States, aboard Air Force One, Feb. 21, 2006
>
> "I think it's really important for this great state of baseball to
> reach out to people of all walks of life to make sure that the sport
> is inclusive. The best way to do it is to convince little kids how
> to-the beauty of playing baseball." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
> Feb. 13, 2006
>
> "I like my buddies from west Texas. I liked them when I was young, I
> liked them then I was middle-age, I liked them before I was president,
> and I like them during president, and I like them after president."
> -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Feb. 1, 2006
>
> "He was a state sponsor of terror. In other words, the government had
> declared, you are a state sponsor of terror." -George W. Bush, on
> Saddam Hussein, Manhattan, Kan., Jan. 23, 2006
>
> "I'll be glad to talk about ranching, but I haven't seen the movie.
> I've heard about it. I hope you go - you know - I hope you go back to
> the ranch and the farm is what I'm about to say." -George W. Bush,
> after being asked whether he's seen Brokeback Mountain, Manhattan,
> Kan., Jan. 23, 2006
>
> "It's a heck of a place to bring your family." -George W. Bush, on New
> Orleans, New Orleans, La., Jan. 12, 2006
>
> "You took an oath to defend our flag and our freedom, and you kept
> that oath underseas and under fire." -George W. Bush, addressing war
> veterans, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2006
>
> "As you can possibly see, I have an injury myself - not here at the
> hospital, but in combat with a cedar. I eventually won. The cedar gave
> me a little scratch. As a matter of fact, the Colonel asked if I
> needed first aid when she first saw me. I was able to avoid any major
> surgical operations here, but thanks for your compassion, Colonel."
> -George W. Bush, after visiting with wounded veterans from the Amputee
> Care Center of Brooke Army Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas, Jan. 1,
> 2006
>
> "[I]t's a myth to think I don't know what's going on. It's a myth to
> think that I'm not aware that there's opinions that don't agree with
> mine, because I'm fully aware of that." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia,
> Pa., Dec. 12, 2005
>
> "I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
> Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat,
> as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
>
> "I think we are welcomed. But it was not a peaceful welcome." -George
> W. Bush, defending Vice President Dick Cheney's pre-war assertion that
> the United States would be welcomed in Iraq as liberators, NBC Nightly
> News interview, Dec. 12, 2005
>
> "Those who enter the country illegally violate the law." -George W.
> Bush, Tucson, Ariz., Nov. 28, 2005
>
> "As a matter of fact, I know relations between our governments is
> good." -George W. Bush, on U.S.-South Korean relations, Washington
> D.C., Nov. 8, 2005
>
> "Wow! Brazil is big." -George W. Bush, after being shown a map of
> Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia,
> Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005
>
> "Bin Laden says his own role is to tell Muslims, quote, 'what is good
> for them and what is not.'" -George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Oct. 6,
> 2005
>
> "I think it's important to bring somebody from outside the system, the
> judicial system, somebody that hasn't been on the bench and,
> therefore, there's not a lot of opinions for people to look at."
> -George W. Bush, on the nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme
> Court, Washington, D.C., October 4, 2005
>
> "We look forward to hearing your vision, so we can more better do our
> job. That's what I'm telling you." -George W. Bush, Gulfport, Miss.,
> Sept. 20, 2005
>
> "If it were to rain a lot, there is concern from the Army Corps of
> Engineers that the levees might break. And so, therefore, we're
> cautious about encouraging people to return at this moment of
> history." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2005
>
> "Listen, I want to thank leaders of the - in the faith - faith-based
> and community-based community for being here." -George W. Bush,
> Washington, D.C., Sept. 6, 2005
>
> "So please give cash money to organizations that are directly involved
> in helping save lives - save the life who had been affected by
> Hurricane Katrina." -George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2005
>
> "I can't wait to join you in the joy of welcoming neighbors back into
> neighborhoods, and small businesses up and running, and cutting those
> ribbons that somebody is creating new jobs." -George W. Bush,
> Poplarville, Miss., Sept. 5, 2005
>
> "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -George W. Bush, to FEMA
> director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over
> his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005 (Listen to audio;
> read more stupid quotes about Hurricane Katrina)
>
> "We've got a lot of rebuilding to do. First, we're going to save lives
> and stabilize the situation. And then we're going to help these
> communities rebuild. The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see
> it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf
> Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house --
> he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house.
> And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." (Laughter) --George
> W. Bush, touring hurricane damage, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
>
> "My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
> talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." -George W. Bush, on
> rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
>
> "Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course
> of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it." -George W.
> Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 1, 2005
>
> "It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly
> devastating on the ground." -George W. Bush, turning to his aides
> while surveying Hurricane Katrina flood damage from Air Force One ,
> Aug. 31, 2005
>
> "The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending
> time investigating it." -George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA
> agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18,
> 2005
>
> "I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend."
> -George W. Bush, on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005
>
> "I was going to say he's a piece of work, but that might not translate
> too well. Is that all right, if I call you a 'piece of work'?" -George
> W. Bush to Jean-Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg,
> Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005
> "The relations with, uhh - Europe are important relations, and
> they've, uhh - because, we do share values. And, they're universal
> values, they're not American values or, you know - European values,
> they're universal values. And those values - uhh - being universal,
> ought to be applied everywhere." -George W. Bush, at a press
> conference with European Union dignitaries, Washington, D.C., June 20,
> 2005
>
> "You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the
> attacks reminded us that we are at war." -George W. Bush, on the Sept.
> 11 attacks, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
>
> "And the second way to defeat the terrorists is to spread freedom. You
> see, the best way to defeat a society that is - doesn't have hope, a
> society where people become so angry they're willing to become
> suiciders, is to spread freedom, is to spread democracy." -George W.
> Bush, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
> "It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word
> of - and the allegations - by people who were held in detention,
> people who hate America, people that had been trained in some
> instances to disassemble - that means not tell the truth." -George W.
> Bush, on an Amnesty International report on prisoner abuse at
> Guantanamo Bay, Washington, D.C., May 31, 2005 (Listen to audio)
>
> "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and
> over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the
> propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to
> audio)
>
> "We discussed the way forward in Iraq, discussed the importance of a
> democracy in the greater Middle East in order to leave behind a
> peaceful tomorrow." -George W. Bush, Tbilisi, Georgia, May 10, 2005
>
> "I think younger workers - first of all, younger workers have been
> promised benefits the government - promises that have been promised,
> benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." -George W.
> Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2005
>
> "It means your own money would grow better than that which the
> government can make it grow. And that's important." -George W. Bush,
> on what private accounts could do for Social Security funds, Falls
> Church, Va., April 29, 2005
>
>
> "I can only speak to myself." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April
> 28, 2005
>
> "It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us
> and get them out of harm's way." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
> April 28, 2005
>
> "We expect the states to show us whether or not we're achieving simple
> objectives - like literacy, literacy in math, the ability to read and
> write." -George W. Bush, on federal education requirements,
> Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
>
> "He understands the need for a timely write of the constitution."
> -George W. Bush, on Prime Minister Iyad Allawi of Iraq, Washington,
> D.C., April 28, 2005
>
> "Well, we've made the decision to defeat the terrorists abroad so we
> don't have to face them here at home. And when you engage the
> terrorists abroad, it causes activity and action." -George W. Bush,
> Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
>
> "But Iraq has - have got people there that are willing to kill, and
> they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure
> their future." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
>
> "I appreciate my love for Laura." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,
> April 20, 2005
>
> "We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also prevents an
> environmental challenge." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 20,
> 2005
>
> "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the
> facts is what you're going to do about it." -George W. Bush,
> Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005
>
> "I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I
> enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me." -George W.
> Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005
>
> "We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will
> make - it would hope - put a free press's mind at ease that you're not
> being denied information you shouldn't see." -George W. Bush,
> Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005
>
> "I want to thank you for the importance that you've shown for
> education and literacy." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13,
> 2005
>
> "I understand there's a suspicion that we-we're too
> security-conscience." -George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005
>
> "If they pre-decease or die early, there's an asset base to be able to
> pass on to a loved one." -George W. Bush, on Social Security money
> held in private accounts, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, March 30, 2005
>
> [I'm] occasionally reading, I want you to know, in the second term."
> -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
>
> "In this job you've got a lot on your plate on a regular basis; you
> don't have much time to sit around and wander, lonely, in the Oval
> Office, kind of asking different portraits, 'How do you think my
> standing will be?'" -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
>
> "In terms of timetables, as quickly as possible - whatever that
> means." -George W. Bush, on his time frame for shoring up Social
> Security, Washington D.C., March 16, 2005
>
> "I like the idea of people running for office. There's a positive
> effect when you run for office. Maybe some will run for office and
> say, vote for me, I look forward to blowing up America. I don't know,
> I don't know if that will be their platform or not. But it's -- I
> don't think so. I think people who generally run for office say, vote
> for me, I'm looking forward to fixing your potholes, or making sure
> you got bread on the table." -George W. Bush, on elections in the
> Middle East, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
>
> "I repeat, personal accounts do not permanently fix the solution."
> -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005
>
> "This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is
> simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the
> table." -George W. Bush, Brussels, Belgium, Feb. 22, 2005
>
> "If you're a younger person, you ought to be asking members of
> Congress and the United States Senate and the president what you
> intend to do about it. If you see a train wreck coming, you ought to
> be saying, what are you going to do about it, Mr. Congressman, or
> Madam Congressman?" -George W. Bush, Detroit, Mich., Feb. 8, 2005
>
> "Because the - all which is on the table begins to address the big
> cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is
> on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases
> or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are
> being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost
> drivers, affecting those - changing those with personal accounts, the
> idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be - or closer
> delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you?
> It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the
> - like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase
> of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested
> that we calculate - the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as
> opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the
> red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits
> grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those - if that growth
> is affected, it will help on the red." -George W. Bush, explaining his
> plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005
>
> "You work three jobs? . Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is
> fantastic that you're doing that." -George W. Bush, to a divorced
> mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005 (Listen to audio)
>
> "After all, Europe is America's closest ally." -George W. Bush, Mainz,
> Germany, Feb. 23, 2005
>
> "Because he's hiding." -George W. Bush, responding to a reporter who
> asked why Osama bin Laden had not been caught, aboard Air Force One,
> Jan. 14, 2005
>
> "I'm also mindful that man should never try to put words in God's
> mouth. I mean, we should never ascribe natural disasters or anything
> else to God. We are in no way, shape, or form should a human being,
> play God." -George W. Bush, ABC's 20/20, Washington D.C., Jan. 14,
> 2005
>
> "I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for
> your sacrifice." -George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005
>
>
> "I speak plainly sometimes, but you've got to be mindful of the
> consequences of the words. So put that down. I don't know if you'd
> call that a confession, a regret, something." -George W. Bush,
> speaking to reporters, Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2005
>
> "Who could have possibly envisioned an erection - an election in Iraq
> at this point in history?" -George W. Bush, at the white House,
> Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005
>
> "We need to apply 21st-century information technology to the health
> care field. We need to have our medical records put on the I.T."
> -George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005
>
> "I believe we are called to do the hard work to make our communities
> and quality of life a better place." -George W. Bush, Collinsville,
> Ill., Jan. 5, 2005
>
>
> Loki
>
> To support our men and women overseas
> who may not be getting packages from home,
> you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
> http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
>
> It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
>
> I encourage everyone to check it out,
> respond from the heart, and pass it
> along to anyone you think may want
> to remember our overseas military personnel,
> throughout the year.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086853 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 02:36 |
|
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:55:12 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
<C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>Loki wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:51:44 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out of
>>>>> his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for creating
>>>> it were and continue to be phony.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why
>>> we are in a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back in
>>> 1991. There is nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight on
>>> in Iraq..unless one pretends that the previous 15 years never really
>>> happened.
>>
>> The "reasons" for the war were a link between Iraq and 9/11 and WMDs.
>> Both were lies.
>>
>
>There was never any argument fashioned to link Iraq to the 9/11 attacks.
Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know politics.
"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship between
Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As evidence, he
cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin Laden in Sudan.
"There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised
interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning
"more and more" about connections between Al Qaida and Iraq before the
Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and officials
who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush said Saturday U.S. troops in Iraq
were fighting to protect Americans at home from terrorism like the
Sept. 11 attacks four years ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
"I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat,
as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
And those took me about a minute to dig up. I can find as many as you
want with Bush, Cheney, and Rusmfeld linking the two. If you did not
recognize them as doing so, you are probably the only person in
America who didn't.
>That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in the
>first place.
No, Saddam was who Bush always wanted and he took 9/11 and tied Saddam
to it even there was no justification to do so. Were you not paying
attention, or were you still focused on how blinded you were by your
hatred of Clinton?
>As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
>actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify the
>detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied. The UN never
>acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war with Iraq from January
>17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the invasion. In 2003 the time was
>finally taken to force compliance. Since then hundreds of warheads have
>been found. Evidence is clearly existent in the public domain that large
>stores of Iraqi WMDs were moved in the final months before the
>invasion...probably with assistance from some nations that really don't want
>a major public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
>Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
The notion that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to use them was the
other justification for the invasion.
"We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical and
biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our
entrance into Iraq." -George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2, 2003
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -George W.
Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that
administration officials knew at the time to be false
And while they may have found warheads, they were about as much a
threat to us as the Indian arrow heads found at your local museum.
They were obsolete before Clinton took office.
Bottom line... Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and he had no WMDs.
And those were the reasons Bush claimed he was justified in invading
Iraq.
>
>>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever.
>>>> There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>>
>>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>>
>>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
>>
>> He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that are
>> over 10 years old.
>>
>
>Interesting. You were the one firing up the nonsense about the AMAZING
>CLINTON ECONOMY while trashing the present economy that looks suspiciously
>identical to the best years under Clinton....except with stronger numbers
>for small businesses and home ownership today.
No, under Clinton it grew. Look at where it was when Clinton took
office. Look at where it was 6 years later. Much, much better. Home
ownership was up, crime was down, unemployment was down, the Dow was
setting records, and he left Bush with the largest budget surplus in
history.
Now, Bush is almost back to where Clinton was 8 years ago after
dropping the ball repeatedly with his policies. To whit:
"We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual
rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates." -George W.
Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
Here are a few more gems from your man...
"The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's
job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French
economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
"Do you have blacks, too?" -George W. Bush, to Brazilian President
Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002,
Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of
President Cardoso
"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." -George W. Bush,
as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
"It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is
important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children
living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet." -George W.
Bush, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
"I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time
thinking about myself, about why I do things." -George W. Bush, aboard
Air Force One, June 4, 2003
"I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian
Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." -George W.
Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003
"My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." -George W. Bush, on
rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
"The person who runs FEMA is someone who must have the trust of the
president. Because the person who runs FEMA is the first voice, often
times, of someone whose life has been turned upside down hears from."
-George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -George W. Bush, to FEMA
director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over
his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
"I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
largemouth bass in my lake." -George W. Bush, on his best moment in
office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
2006
Loki
To support our men and women overseas
who may not be getting packages from home,
you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
I encourage everyone to check it out,
respond from the heart, and pass it
along to anyone you think may want
to remember our overseas military personnel,
throughout the year.
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086858 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 04:17 |
|
Loki wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:55:12 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Loki wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:51:44 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
>>>>> "Loki" <cubby77267 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:sq26b2dl84l4f0n73vbr2er582ee8to67o [at] 4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hell no!!! I wish that Bush would get a blow job and get us out
>>>>>> of his phony war in Iraq and bring back Clinton's economy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, it is not a phony war. Just the reasons for
>>>>> creating it were and continue to be phony.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A blown off cease fire that went unchecked from 1993 onward is why
>>>> we are in a war in Iraq right now. I was in the first round back
>>>> in 1991. There is nothing phony about the reasons we have a fight
>>>> on in Iraq..unless one pretends that the previous 15 years never
>>>> really happened.
>>>
>>> The "reasons" for the war were a link between Iraq and 9/11 and
>>> WMDs. Both were lies.
>>>
>>
>> There was never any argument fashioned to link Iraq to the 9/11
>> attacks.
>
> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know politics.
>
> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship between
> Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As evidence, he
> cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin Laden in Sudan.
> "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush said.
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>
Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link between Iraq
and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida which has been stated
a million times over the last 4 years. Your side tries to make a link
between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an argument that Iraq was behind
9/11...this isn't the argument and never was.
> Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised
> interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning
> "more and more" about connections between Al Qaida and Iraq before the
> Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and officials
> who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq.
>
Well anyone who was surprised in 2002 about links between Iraq and Al Quaida
before 9/11 are idiots. The links were never a secret. Again..Saddam made
no secret in 1999 his invitation for Osama to live in Baghdad.
> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>
> CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush said Saturday U.S. troops in Iraq
> were fighting to protect Americans at home from terrorism like the
> Sept. 11 attacks four years ago.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
>
> "I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
> Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat,
> as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
>
> And those took me about a minute to dig up. I can find as many as you
> want with Bush, Cheney, and Rusmfeld linking the two. If you did not
> recognize them as doing so, you are probably the only person in
> America who didn't.
>
>
Yes and you still haven't found an argument that says Iraq was behind the
9/11 attacks. And the reason you haven't is..because that wasn't the
argument. That was a strawman 4 years ago. Your side floated it up
repeatedly and it was ignored because it was not the argument..no more then
the front on the war on terror which has also been underway in the
Philipinnes since 9/11 involving US Military personnel and the Filipino
military engaged with Islamofascist forces on Mindanao would be a sign that
we think the Philippinnes was behind 9/11.
>> That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in
>> the first place.
>
> No, Saddam was who Bush always wanted and he took 9/11 and tied Saddam
> to it even there was no justification to do so. Were you not paying
> attention, or were you still focused on how blinded you were by your
> hatred of Clinton?
The hatred is all coming from you Loki. I am sticking to facts. You are
taking words out of context from 4 years ago to argue points that were
strawmen 4 years ago.
>
>> As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
>> actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify
>> the detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied. The
>> UN never acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war with
>> Iraq from January 17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the
>> invasion. In 2003 the time was finally taken to force compliance.
>> Since then hundreds of warheads have been found. Evidence is
>> clearly existent in the public domain that large stores of Iraqi
>> WMDs were moved in the final months before the invasion...probably
>> with assistance from some nations that really don't want a major
>> public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
>> Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
>
> The notion that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to use them was the
> other justification for the invasion.
>
It was one major justification..and it was true.
> "We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical and
> biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our
> entrance into Iraq." -George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2, 2003
>
Indeed. And I know for a fact that this was true too...as do several of my
friends. So what is your issue with this statement?
> "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
> sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -George W.
> Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that
> administration officials knew at the time to be false
>
Um..wrong. And this is part of the commentary that led to the CIA/Valerie
Plame scandalfest of the last 3 years. And as it has turned out the jury at
worst remains out on these claims.
> And while they may have found warheads, they were about as much a
> threat to us as the Indian arrow heads found at your local museum.
> They were obsolete before Clinton took office.
>
Says you in your expertise..but not anyone that knows anything about such
weapons.
> Bottom line... Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and he had no WMDs.
Bottom line..Saddam and 9/11 was irrelevant to the invasion...the left
insistence that he had to be behind it in order to justify invading him was
a recipe for utter foolishness given that we were like it or not comitted to
a war on terror...and he obviously had WMDs..since WE FOUND SOME OF THE
DAMNED THINGS!!! Goodness. You are nuts.
> And those were the reasons Bush claimed he was justified in invading
> Iraq.
Liar. Bush never claimed we were invading Iraq because Iraq was involved in
the 9/11 attacks. You keep saying it, yet the quotes you are citing..do not
support that claim.
>>
>>>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever.
>>>>> There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>>>
>>>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
>>>
>>> He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that
>>> are over 10 years old.
>>>
>>
>> Interesting. You were the one firing up the nonsense about the
>> AMAZING CLINTON ECONOMY while trashing the present economy that
>> looks suspiciously identical to the best years under
>> Clinton....except with stronger numbers for small businesses and
>> home ownership today.
>
> No, under Clinton it grew.
Clinton inherited an economy coming out of a recession. He left an economy
entering a recession. W inherited an economy in a recession...we are in an
economy that is post recession. The economy under Clinton grew. The
economy under Bush has grown.
Look at where it was when Clinton took
> office.
Yes let's. The economy was struggling out of recession when Clinton took
office. He responded with his Democratic congress by reaming the middle
class and stagnating things. Then in 1994 we had the GOP "revolution" and
he started getting handed balanced budgets. The economy took off
accordingly. By the end of his 2nd term the economy was in the early stages
of recession. That is just plain history Loki. You can look it up as
easily as I can.
Look at where it was 6 years later. Much, much better. Home
> ownership was up,
Home ownership has exploded under Bush.
crime was down,
Crime rates in this country have plummeted in the last 6 years.
unemployment was down,
Unemployment is at it's lowest ebb in a decade..right now. That was not
true in 1999.
the Dow was
> setting records, and he left Bush with the largest budget surplus in
> history.
>
The Dow has benchmarked at it's highest levels ever under Bush.
> Now, Bush is almost back to where Clinton was 8 years ago after
> dropping the ball repeatedly with his policies. To whit:
>
Um..he has had exactly one policy. Cut taxes. And despite the words of
naysayers...those lower tax rates have resulted in record revenues and a
booming economy. So what is your problem with that?
> "We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual
> rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates." -George W.
> Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
>
> Here are a few more gems from your man...
>
> "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's
> job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
>
> "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
> entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French
> economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
>
> "Do you have blacks, too?" -George W. Bush, to Brazilian President
> Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002,
> Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of
> President Cardoso
>
> "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." -George W. Bush,
> as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
>
> "It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is
> important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children
> living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet." -George W.
> Bush, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
>
> "I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time
> thinking about myself, about why I do things." -George W. Bush, aboard
> Air Force One, June 4, 2003
>
> "I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian
> Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." -George W.
> Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003
>
> "My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
> talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." -George W. Bush, on
> rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
>
> "The person who runs FEMA is someone who must have the trust of the
> president. Because the person who runs FEMA is the first voice, often
> times, of someone whose life has been turned upside down hears from."
> -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
>
> "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -George W. Bush, to FEMA
> director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over
> his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
>
> "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
> largemouth bass in my lake." -George W. Bush, on his best moment in
> office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
> 2006
>
And all of this has to do with what the definition of "is is" how?
>
> Loki
>
> To support our men and women overseas
> who may not be getting packages from home,
> you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
> http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
>
> It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
>
> I encourage everyone to check it out,
> respond from the heart, and pass it
> along to anyone you think may want
> to remember our overseas military personnel,
> throughout the year.
Good job supporting our troops by tearing down their mission.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086865 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 05:27 |
|
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
<C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know politics.
>>
>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship between
>> Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As evidence, he
>> cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin Laden in Sudan.
>> "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush said.
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>
>
>Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link between Iraq
>and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida which has been stated
>a million times over the last 4 years. Your side tries to make a link
>between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an argument that Iraq was behind
>9/11...this isn't the argument and never was.
Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>> Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised
>> interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning
>> "more and more" about connections between Al Qaida and Iraq before the
>> Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and officials
>> who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq.
>>
>
>Well anyone who was surprised in 2002 about links between Iraq and Al Quaida
>before 9/11 are idiots. The links were never a secret. Again..Saddam made
>no secret in 1999 his invitation for Osama to live in Baghdad.
See above.
>> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>>
>> CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush said Saturday U.S. troops in Iraq
>> were fighting to protect Americans at home from terrorism like the
>> Sept. 11 attacks four years ago.
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
>>
>> "I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
>> Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat,
>> as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
>>
>> And those took me about a minute to dig up. I can find as many as you
>> want with Bush, Cheney, and Rusmfeld linking the two. If you did not
>> recognize them as doing so, you are probably the only person in
>> America who didn't.
>>
>>
>
>Yes and you still haven't found an argument that says Iraq was behind the
>9/11 attacks. And the reason you haven't is..because that wasn't the
>argument. That was a strawman 4 years ago. Your side floated it up
>repeatedly and it was ignored because it was not the argument..no more then
>the front on the war on terror which has also been underway in the
>Philipinnes since 9/11 involving US Military personnel and the Filipino
>military engaged with Islamofascist forces on Mindanao would be a sign that
>we think the Philippinnes was behind 9/11.
Iraq was not behind 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. However,
Al Qaida did. And Bush was linking Iraq and Al Qaida at every
opportunity as a "guilt by association" tactic.
I thought that just everyone was too intelligent to not see through
that. I guess I was wrong.
>>> That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in
>>> the first place.
>>
>> No, Saddam was who Bush always wanted and he took 9/11 and tied Saddam
>> to it even there was no justification to do so. Were you not paying
>> attention, or were you still focused on how blinded you were by your
>> hatred of Clinton?
>
>The hatred is all coming from you Loki. I am sticking to facts. You are
>taking words out of context from 4 years ago to argue points that were
>strawmen 4 years ago.
I am not taking any words out of context, and hate would be
exemplified by someone who repeated false charges against Clinton
(Guilty of sexual harassment against Monica Lewinski ring a bell? It
was one of the first conversations you and I ever had...) and still
obsesses over him years after he has left office is clearly guilty of
hatred.
>>> As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
>>> actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify
>>> the detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied. The
>>> UN never acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war with
>>> Iraq from January 17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the
>>> invasion. In 2003 the time was finally taken to force compliance.
>>> Since then hundreds of warheads have been found. Evidence is
>>> clearly existent in the public domain that large stores of Iraqi
>>> WMDs were moved in the final months before the invasion...probably
>>> with assistance from some nations that really don't want a major
>>> public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
>>> Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
>>
>> The notion that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to use them was the
>> other justification for the invasion.
>It was one major justification..and it was true.
It was one of two (with the link to 9/11) and no matter how often you
repeat it, it is not true.
>> "We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical and
>> biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our
>> entrance into Iraq." -George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2, 2003
>>
>
>Indeed. And I know for a fact that this was true too...as do several of my
>friends. So what is your issue with this statement?
The issue is that Bush claimed that he knew that there were WMDs and
that he would find them. There weren't and he didn't.
>> "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
>> sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -George W.
>> Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that
>> administration officials knew at the time to be false
>Um..wrong. And this is part of the commentary that led to the CIA/Valerie
>Plame scandalfest of the last 3 years. And as it has turned out the jury at
>worst remains out on these claims.
Um... Not wrong.
>> And while they may have found warheads, they were about as much a
>> threat to us as the Indian arrow heads found at your local museum.
>> They were obsolete before Clinton took office.
>>
>
>Says you in your expertise..but not anyone that knows anything about such
>weapons.
Sorry Charley, but I do know what I am talking about. The warheads
were not usable. Unless they were dropped on someone they would be no
threat.
>> Bottom line... Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and he had no WMDs.
>
>Bottom line..Saddam and 9/11 was irrelevant to the invasion...
Not according to Bush and the mouth pieces of the administration.
>the left
>insistence that he had to be behind it in order to justify invading him was
>a recipe for utter foolishness given that we were like it or not comitted to
>a war on terror...and he obviously had WMDs..since WE FOUND SOME OF THE
>DAMNED THINGS!!! Goodness. You are nuts.
They were WMDs like catapults were WMDs. Perhaps at a different time
they may have been a threat, but not at the time Bush used them as a
justification to invade Iraq.
>> And those were the reasons Bush claimed he was justified in invading
>> Iraq.
>
>Liar. Bush never claimed we were invading Iraq because Iraq was involved in
>the 9/11 attacks. You keep saying it, yet the quotes you are citing..do not
>support that claim.
Yes they do. I am not lying, and you are off the chart whacko on
Republican Kool-Aide. You are listening to too much Limbaugh and
watching too much Fox. Take a deep breath. Open your window. Take a
walk. Look around. Don't worry. Even though you are showing your ugly
side, I still like you and will be here when you open your eyes.
>>>>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than ever.
>>>>>> There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really are.
>>>>
>>>> He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that
>>>> are over 10 years old.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting. You were the one firing up the nonsense about the
>>> AMAZING CLINTON ECONOMY while trashing the present economy that
>>> looks suspiciously identical to the best years under
>>> Clinton....except with stronger numbers for small businesses and
>>> home ownership today.
>>
>> No, under Clinton it grew.
>
>Clinton inherited an economy coming out of a recession. He left an economy
>entering a recession. W inherited an economy in a recession...we are in an
>economy that is post recession. The economy under Clinton grew. The
>economy under Bush has grown.
As I said, and you have not aknowleged, at any point in his
administration, the economy was better any year than it was the prior
year, and always better than the economy he inherited.
The same cannot be said of Bush.
> Look at where it was when Clinton took
>> office.
>
>Yes let's. The economy was struggling out of recession when Clinton took
>office. He responded with his Democratic congress by reaming the middle
>class and stagnating things. Then in 1994 we had the GOP "revolution" and
>he started getting handed balanced budgets. The economy took off
>accordingly. By the end of his 2nd term the economy was in the early stages
>of recession. That is just plain history Loki. You can look it up as
>easily as I can.
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Bush has the same GOP
House that Clinton had. If the House determined the economy, Bush
would be in hog heaven instead of struggling to get back to what he
was left with.
If, on the other hand, it is the President who determines the economy,
with the same GOP Congress, Clinton prospered, Bush has floundered.
>Look at where it was 6 years later. Much, much better. Home
>> ownership was up,
>
>Home ownership has exploded under Bush.
So have foreclosures.In record numbers.
>crime was down,
>
>Crime rates in this country have plummeted in the last 6 years.
Crime was lower under Clinton than at any time under Bush. However,
Bush likes to change definitions in order to make his numbers look
good which is why he stops counting people who have been unemployed
for over 2 years in his unemployment statistics.
And why he changed the definition of wetlands to include lakes in
order to cover up what he has done to the environment.
>unemployment was down,
>
>Unemployment is at it's lowest ebb in a decade..right now. That was not
>true in 1999.
See above.
>the Dow was
>> setting records, and he left Bush with the largest budget surplus in
>> history.
>>
>
>The Dow has benchmarked at it's highest levels ever under Bush.
How much has it grown from when Bush took office compared to how much
it grew under Clinton?
>> Now, Bush is almost back to where Clinton was 8 years ago after
>> dropping the ball repeatedly with his policies. To whit:
>Um..he has had exactly one policy. Cut taxes. And despite the words of
>naysayers...those lower tax rates have resulted in record revenues and a
>booming economy. So what is your problem with that?
Have you looked at the national debt lately? Do you have any idea how
much of your taxes go towards the interest on that debt? He is setting
record deficits which increase the debt and which are on the road to
bankrupting the country.
>> "We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual
>> rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates." -George W.
>> Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
>>
>> Here are a few more gems from your man...
>>
>> "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's
>> job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
>>
>> "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
>> entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French
>> economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
>>
>> "Do you have blacks, too?" -George W. Bush, to Brazilian President
>> Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002,
>> Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of
>> President Cardoso
>>
>> "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." -George W. Bush,
>> as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
>>
>> "It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is
>> important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children
>> living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet." -George W.
>> Bush, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
>>
>> "I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time
>> thinking about myself, about why I do things." -George W. Bush, aboard
>> Air Force One, June 4, 2003
>>
>> "I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian
>> Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." -George W.
>> Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003
>>
>> "My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
>> talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." -George W. Bush, on
>> rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
>>
>> "The person who runs FEMA is someone who must have the trust of the
>> president. Because the person who runs FEMA is the first voice, often
>> times, of someone whose life has been turned upside down hears from."
>> -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
>>
>> "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -George W. Bush, to FEMA
>> director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over
>> his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
>>
>> "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
>> largemouth bass in my lake." -George W. Bush, on his best moment in
>> office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
>> 2006
>>
>
>And all of this has to do with what the definition of "is is" how?
That is the best that you have?
Loki
To support our men and women overseas
who may not be getting packages from home,
you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
I encourage everyone to check it out,
respond from the heart, and pass it
along to anyone you think may want
to remember our overseas military personnel,
throughout the year.
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086874 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 10:17 |
|
Loki wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know
>>> politics.
>>>
>>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship
>>> between Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As
>>> evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin
>>> Laden in Sudan. "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush
>>> said.
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>>
>>
>> Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link
>> between Iraq and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida
>> which has been stated a million times over the last 4 years. Your
>> side tries to make a link between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an
>> argument that Iraq was behind 9/11...this isn't the argument and
>> never was.
>
> Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
> interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
> sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>
I am suggesting nothing. I am stating specifically what I and my side was
stating in 2003. A relationship between Iraq and Al Quaida does not equate
to saying Iraq was behind 9/11. Bush was not claiming Iraq was behind 9/11.
Cheney wasn't. Rumsfeld wasn't and neither was Powell. The fact is Iraq
did have a pre-existing relationship with Al Qaida as well as other major
terror organizations. The other fact is that the left has largely ignored
this and it is starting to really smack at you guys as more and more of this
stuff comes out publically in ways that just can't be discarded.
Hell, Zarkawai setup Al Quaida in Iraq a full year before we invaded Iraq.
Does that somehow also escape your notice?
>>> Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised
>>> interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning
>>> "more and more" about connections between Al Qaida and Iraq before
>>> the Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and
>>> officials who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq.
>>>
>>
>> Well anyone who was surprised in 2002 about links between Iraq and
>> Al Quaida before 9/11 are idiots. The links were never a secret.
>> Again..Saddam made no secret in 1999 his invitation for Osama to
>> live in Baghdad.
>
> See above.
>
I saw. And I made my point. You seem to ignore the obvoius.
>>> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>>>
>>> CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush said Saturday U.S. troops in Iraq
>>> were fighting to protect Americans at home from terrorism like the
>>> Sept. 11 attacks four years ago.
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
>>>
>>> "I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
>>> Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that
>>> threat, as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec.
>>> 12, 2005
>>>
>>> And those took me about a minute to dig up. I can find as many as
>>> you want with Bush, Cheney, and Rusmfeld linking the two. If you
>>> did not recognize them as doing so, you are probably the only
>>> person in America who didn't.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes and you still haven't found an argument that says Iraq was
>> behind the 9/11 attacks. And the reason you haven't is..because
>> that wasn't the argument. That was a strawman 4 years ago. Your
>> side floated it up repeatedly and it was ignored because it was not
>> the argument..no more then the front on the war on terror which has
>> also been underway in the Philipinnes since 9/11 involving US
>> Military personnel and the Filipino military engaged with
>> Islamofascist forces on Mindanao would be a sign that we think the
>> Philippinnes was behind 9/11.
>
> Iraq was not behind 9/11.
I know that. And again...since no one has been saying they were that isn't
much of a pont to keep driving at.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. However,
> Al Qaida did. And Bush was linking Iraq and Al Qaida at every
> opportunity as a "guilt by association" tactic.
>
Indeed. Why is this a problem? Al Quaida had house setup in Iraq. Theydid
on and off throughout the late 1990's. As early as 1998 your buddy Bill
Clinton fired a batch of missiles at Iraq to attack Al Qaida training sites
in Iraq. Remember that? Wasn't highly effective IMO.
> I thought that just everyone was too intelligent to not see through
> that. I guess I was wrong.
>
>>>> That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in
>>>> the first place.
>>>
>>> No, Saddam was who Bush always wanted and he took 9/11 and tied
>>> Saddam to it even there was no justification to do so. Were you not
>>> paying attention, or were you still focused on how blinded you were
>>> by your hatred of Clinton?
>>
>> The hatred is all coming from you Loki. I am sticking to facts.
>> You are taking words out of context from 4 years ago to argue points
>> that were strawmen 4 years ago.
>
> I am not taking any words out of context,
Bullshit. That is exactly what you are doing. You are insisting on an
argument that wasn't ever the debate to begin with.
and hate would be
> exemplified by someone who repeated false charges against Clinton
> (Guilty of sexual harassment against Monica Lewinski ring a bell?
Yes. I also remember being absolutely right in that he as guilty of what
any employer in the country would be cited for sexual misconduct as well as
lying under oath..to the point that he was impeached and disbarred. What
does that have to do with this thread other then you alone keep mentioning
it?
It
> was one of the first conversations you and I ever had...) and still
> obsesses over him years after he has left office is clearly guilty of
> hatred.
>
Hmmm..interesting. A couple of quotes in my sig indicate hatred? That is
curious. How about we deal with the current President and the war at hand?
I mean if you really want to talk about my sig you could at the very least
look up the quotes and see if the context makes you chuckle.
>>>> As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
>>>> actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify
>>>> the detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied.
>>>> The UN never acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war
>>>> with Iraq from January 17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the
>>>> invasion. In 2003 the time was finally taken to force compliance.
>>>> Since then hundreds of warheads have been found. Evidence is
>>>> clearly existent in the public domain that large stores of Iraqi
>>>> WMDs were moved in the final months before the invasion...probably
>>>> with assistance from some nations that really don't want a major
>>>> public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
>>>> Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
>>>
>>> The notion that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to use them was the
>>> other justification for the invasion.
>
>> It was one major justification..and it was true.
>
> It was one of two (with the link to 9/11) and no matter how often you
> repeat it, it is not true.
>
Debate by assertion only works if you are arguing with your 3 year old
child..and then only part of the time. There was no link to 9/11 argument
made by the pro-invasion side. Your side's vapid insistence that somehow
the argument must be framed that way was rejected 3 1/2 years ago and your
attempt to revise this history to fuel whatever hatefest you are on doesn't
much matter to me. It is complete nonsense.
The debate began and ended with the cease fire of 1991 and what was required
of Iraq. Iraq's support of terror compounded by their maintenance of
weapons that were banned by that very cease fire required a response. The
response came in the spring of 2003 swiftly.
>>> "We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical
>>> and biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our
>>> entrance into Iraq." -George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2,
>>> 2003
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. And I know for a fact that this was true too...as do
>> several of my friends. So what is your issue with this statement?
>
> The issue is that Bush claimed that he knew that there were WMDs and
> that he would find them. There weren't and he didn't.
>
Except that there were and we did...but again...little thing called facts
gets in the way.
>>> "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
>>> sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -George W.
>>> Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that
>>> administration officials knew at the time to be false
>
>> Um..wrong. And this is part of the commentary that led to the
>> CIA/Valerie Plame scandalfest of the last 3 years. And as it has
>> turned out the jury at worst remains out on these claims.
>
> Um... Not wrong.
>
Yes wrong. GOODNESS!!! This was all about the yellow cake debate.
Something that has been debated for more then 3 years quite publically and
was probably based on foreign intelligence agencies reporting that
conflicted with some CIA analysis. That is the whole story on that so far
as you or I could possibly know. So you are asserting that the
administration essentially lied in that the President said somethign that he
knew to be false..even though that very point may well be actually TRUE?!!!
Wow.
>>> And while they may have found warheads, they were about as much a
>>> threat to us as the Indian arrow heads found at your local museum.
>>> They were obsolete before Clinton took office.
>>>
>>
>> Says you in your expertise..but not anyone that knows anything about
>> such weapons.
>
> Sorry Charley, but I do know what I am talking about. The warheads
> were not usable. Unless they were dropped on someone they would be no
> threat.
>
Yes..I should take the word of...who the Hell are you again? You don't know
what you are talking about. I know for certain that I do know what I am
talking about on this. The reports about these weapons agree absolutely
with what I am saying about them and do not add up to your retarded
asssertion. What in blazes qualfies your comments about this?
>>> Bottom line... Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and he had no
>>> WMDs.
>>
>> Bottom line..Saddam and 9/11 was irrelevant to the invasion...
>
> Not according to Bush and the mouth pieces of the administration.
>
Other then the fact that they never made that argument you mean.
>> the left
>> insistence that he had to be behind it in order to justify invading
>> him was a recipe for utter foolishness given that we were like it or
>> not comitted to a war on terror...and he obviously had WMDs..since
>> WE FOUND SOME OF THE DAMNED THINGS!!! Goodness. You are nuts.
>
> They were WMDs like catapults were WMDs.
No idiot. Mustard gas is not like a catapult. Sarin and VX are not like a
catapult.
Perhaps at a different time
> they may have been a threat, but not at the time Bush used them as a
> justification to invade Iraq.
>
Part of the problem with this argument is the basic fact that Iraq was not
supposed to have them anymore...BEFORE we invaded them. This is central to
the argument in the first place don't you think? I mean the argument that
was actually stated in unmistakable English...the one about WMDs..and not
being allowed to have any. Not the argument that you think was
suggested/insinuated..the one that my side went out of it's way to NOT
make..namely that Iraq was somehow behind 9/11 since we didn't see that as
relevant and all.
Besides the very basic fact that mustard agent will do some pretty nasty
stuff to you even if it is from the mid 1980's. But again if you don't
believe then I invite you to go over to Iraq and touch some of the stuff.
See if you still have this goofy opinion after that.
>>> And those were the reasons Bush claimed he was justified in invading
>>> Iraq.
>>
>> Liar. Bush never claimed we were invading Iraq because Iraq was
>> involved in the 9/11 attacks. You keep saying it, yet the quotes
>> you are citing..do not support that claim.
>
> Yes they do.
They support the claim by not saying anyting about Iraq and 9/11 you mean?
Oh OK. Jeez.
I am not lying, and you are off the chart whacko on
> Republican Kool-Aide.
Nice. Except that you are citing quotes that don't say what you are
concluding but hey....that must just be your nuance at work.
You are listening to too much Limbaugh and
> watching too much Fox.
The only time I know what is going on with Rush Limbaugh is when one of you
Demmiecrats tells me. And regardless of which news I watch...that still
doesn't change the fact that everything you are saying is complete fiction.
Take a deep breath. Open your window. Take a
> walk. Look around. Don't worry. Even though you are showing your ugly
> side, I still like you and will be here when you open your eyes.
>
Strange. I don't see how anyone reading the two way conversation is going
to conclude that I am the one losing my cool.
>>>>>>> They use real body bags. The country is more dangerous than
>>>>>>> ever. There are more 'terrrorists' than ever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Bush is one of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Um..yeah...go with that. Never realized how insane you really
>>>>>> are.
>>>>>
>>>>> He is not the one who finds relevance in Bill Clinton quotes that
>>>>> are over 10 years old.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. You were the one firing up the nonsense about the
>>>> AMAZING CLINTON ECONOMY while trashing the present economy that
>>>> looks suspiciously identical to the best years under
>>>> Clinton....except with stronger numbers for small businesses and
>>>> home ownership today.
>>>
>>> No, under Clinton it grew.
>>
>> Clinton inherited an economy coming out of a recession. He left an
>> economy entering a recession. W inherited an economy in a
>> recession...we are in an economy that is post recession. The
>> economy under Clinton grew. The economy under Bush has grown.
>
> As I said, and you have not aknowleged, at any point in his
> administration, the economy was better any year than it was the prior
> year, and always better than the economy he inherited.
>
I have not acknowledged something that has no basis or point to it. "At
this point" comments are meaningless. Arbitrary and useless. What does
matter is where we are right now and where we are going and right now your
comparisons of the Clinton economy to the Bush economy are rather silly
since they look suspiciously alike.
> The same cannot be said of Bush.
>
Bush inherited an economy in recession.
>> Look at where it was when Clinton took
>>> office.
>>
>> Yes let's. The economy was struggling out of recession when Clinton
>> took office. He responded with his Democratic congress by reaming
>> the middle class and stagnating things. Then in 1994 we had the GOP
>> "revolution" and he started getting handed balanced budgets. The
>> economy took off accordingly. By the end of his 2nd term the
>> economy was in the early stages of recession. That is just plain
>> history Loki. You can look it up as easily as I can.
>
> You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Um..no. I just gave a recap of the history of the economy in the 1990's.
Talking out of both sides of your mouth would be this thing you are doing
where you are citing Clinton as the overriding factor in the 1990's economic
boom while ignoring that it was not the result of any of his policies or
major initiatives..rather the direct result of the GOP Congress..so much to
the point that on the night of his re-election in 1996..William Jefferson
Clinton cited several points from his first term. All of them were from the
Contract with America. Think on that. Or find me a single quote from his
1992 campaign even hinting at balancing a budget.
Bush has the same GOP
> House that Clinton had. If the House determined the economy, Bush
> would be in hog heaven instead of struggling to get back to what he
> was left with.
>
Not really since I have a more clear understanding of the economy and it's
cycles. You apparently have this simplistic view that means it all rides or
falls on the shoulders of the President. I mean besides the fact that we
took a fairly spectacular hit in 2001 and saw an immediate loss of several
hundred thousand jobs within the first 90 days after 9/11.
> If, on the other hand, it is the President who determines the economy,
> with the same GOP Congress, Clinton prospered, Bush has floundered.
>
Well for one thing it is NOT the President who determines the economy stupid
so flush that strawman with all the rest. Secondly...Bush has not
floundered...whew....what world are you living in. Maybe cite a few
numbers. You might not like them. They dump your whole arguement.
>> Look at where it was 6 years later. Much, much better. Home
>>> ownership was up,
>>
>> Home ownership has exploded under Bush.
>
> So have foreclosures.In record numbers.
>
Bzzzzt...false.
>> crime was down,
>>
>> Crime rates in this country have plummeted in the last 6 years.
>
> Crime was lower under Clinton than at any time under Bush. However,
Not according to the FBI.
> Bush likes to change definitions in order to make his numbers look
> good which is why he stops counting people who have been unemployed
> for over 2 years in his unemployment statistics.
>
This also is false. I work in WorkForce Development for a living Loki. I
know exactly how unemployment numbers are surveyed.
> And why he changed the definition of wetlands to include lakes in
> order to cover up what he has done to the environment.
>
You mean those horrible laws that have had no negative effect on the
environment? The rollbacks of executive orders signed in the final days of
the Clinton Presidency none of which were ever actually in effect to begin
with? That what you mean?
>> unemployment was down,
>>
>> Unemployment is at it's lowest ebb in a decade..right now. That was
>> not true in 1999.
>
> See above.
>
Saw above. You don't know what you are talking about...again. And I do..as
usual.
>> the Dow was
>>> setting records, and he left Bush with the largest budget surplus in
>>> history.
>>>
>>
>> The Dow has benchmarked at it's highest levels ever under Bush.
>
> How much has it grown from when Bush took office compared to how much
> it grew under Clinton?
>
How does that mean anything? You made the argument about it's height. I
refuted it with another fact. So you move the line some more? Where do you
expect that Dow will be in 3 years or 10? And why?
>>> Now, Bush is almost back to where Clinton was 8 years ago after
>>> dropping the ball repeatedly with his policies. To whit:
>
>> Um..he has had exactly one policy. Cut taxes. And despite the
>> words of naysayers...those lower tax rates have resulted in record
>> revenues and a booming economy. So what is your problem with that?
>
> Have you looked at the national debt lately?
Yes. It pisses me off. So...please start selecting from amont the various
liberal social services programs that have accounted for the entire deficit
since HHS spending is up about 50% under this President.
Do you have any idea how
> much of your taxes go towards the interest on that debt? He is setting
> record deficits which increase the debt and which are on the road to
> bankrupting the country.
Mmm hmm...yea that is an argument from the simple side of economics that
holds no water. For one thing..the deficit is shrinking again...as
predicted... secondly...the deficits that have existed are not real record
setters as a percentage of the GDP. We have a 13Trillion dollar economy in
this country now. A $400B deficit still only represents about 3% which is
not even close to record highs. And thirdly..bankrupting the country? Loki
exactly who do you suppose would be foreclosing on the USA anytime in the
next 50 years? We aren't talking about your landlord here.
I for one am of a mind that if we leave things alone as they are normal
economic growth will eliminate deficits. Cutting spending on extras will do
that even faster.
>
>>> "We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having
>>> individual rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax
>>> rebates." -George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 4, 2001
>>>
>>> Here are a few more gems from your man...
>>>
>>> "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's
>>> job to interpret law." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
>>>
>>> "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
>>> entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French
>>> economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
>>>
>>> "Do you have blacks, too?" -George W. Bush, to Brazilian President
>>> Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002,
>>> Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of
>>> President Cardoso
>>>
>>> "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." -George W.
>>> Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
>>>
>>> "It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is
>>> important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children
>>> living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet." -George W.
>>> Bush, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
>>>
>>> "I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time
>>> thinking about myself, about why I do things." -George W. Bush,
>>> aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
>>>
>>> "I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian
>>> Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." -George W.
>>> Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003
>>>
>>> "My thoughts are, we're going to get somebody who knows what they're
>>> talking about when it comes to rebuilding cities." -George W. Bush,
>>> on rebuilding New Orleans, Biloxi, Miss., Sept. 2, 2005
>>>
>>> "The person who runs FEMA is someone who must have the trust of the
>>> president. Because the person who runs FEMA is the first voice,
>>> often times, of someone whose life has been turned upside down
>>> hears from." -George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2001
>>>
>>> "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -George W. Bush, to FEMA
>>> director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism
>>> over his job performance, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005
>>>
>>> "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound
>>> largemouth bass in my lake." -George W. Bush, on his best moment in
>>> office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7,
>>> 2006
>>>
>>
>> And all of this has to do with what the definition of "is is" how?
>
> That is the best that you have?
>
>
> Loki
>
> To support our men and women overseas
> who may not be getting packages from home,
> you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
> http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
>
> It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
>
> I encourage everyone to check it out,
> respond from the heart, and pass it
> along to anyone you think may want
> to remember our overseas military personnel,
> throughout the year.
--
v/r Dread Pirate Rackham
"You know one things that's wrong with this country? Everybody gets a
chance to have their fair say." - President Clinton 28 May 1993
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your country, or pretending
that you can love your country but despise your government." -
President Clinton 5 May 1995
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086887 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 16:00 |
|
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:17:32 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
<C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>Loki wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know
>>>> politics.
>>>>
>>>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>>>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship
>>>> between Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As
>>>> evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin
>>>> Laden in Sudan. "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush
>>>> said.
>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link
>>> between Iraq and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida
>>> which has been stated a million times over the last 4 years. Your
>>> side tries to make a link between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an
>>> argument that Iraq was behind 9/11...this isn't the argument and
>>> never was.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
>> interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
>> sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>>
>
>I am suggesting nothing. I am stating specifically what I and my side was
>stating in 2003. A relationship between Iraq and Al Quaida does not equate
>to saying Iraq was behind 9/11.
The only reason that Iraq was ever linked to Al Qaida was to suggest
that they were involved with 9/11. I cannot believe that you do not
see that and suspect that you are just trying to spin your way out of
it.
It doesn't work.
> Bush was not claiming Iraq was behind 9/11.
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were all linking Al Qaida and Iraq as long
standing partners in crime so as to make the two interchangeable.
>Cheney wasn't.
See above.
> Rumsfeld wasn't
See above.
> and neither was Powell.
Powell was not. He was instead focusing on the location of the
imaginary WMDs.
> The fact is Iraq
>did have a pre-existing relationship with Al Qaida as well as other major
>terror organizations.
So what? The discussion is 9/11. Why does Iraq even belong in such a
discussion unless it is an attempt to link the two.
> The other fact is that the left has largely ignored
>this and it is starting to really smack at you guys as more and more of this
>stuff comes out publically in ways that just can't be discarded.
The "left" has not ignored this. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and
had no WMDs. Those were the reasons used to justify the invasion and
neither are true.
>Hell, Zarkawai setup Al Quaida in Iraq a full year before we invaded Iraq.
>Does that somehow also escape your notice?
>
>>>> Cheney left that possibility wide open in a nationally televised
>>>> interview two days ago, claiming that the administration is learning
>>>> "more and more" about connections between Al Qaida and Iraq before
>>>> the Sept. 11 attacks. The statement surprised some analysts and
>>>> officials who have reviewed intelligence reports from Iraq.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well anyone who was surprised in 2002 about links between Iraq and
>>> Al Quaida before 9/11 are idiots. The links were never a secret.
>>> Again..Saddam made no secret in 1999 his invitation for Osama to
>>> live in Baghdad.
>>
>> See above.
>>
>
>I saw. And I made my point. You seem to ignore the obvoius.
No, you are ignoring reality. Why on God's green Earth would Bush and
his gang be continually linking Iraq and Al Qaida if they were not
trying to suggest 9/11 involvement?
>>>> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>>>>
>>>> CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush said Saturday U.S. troops in Iraq
>>>> were fighting to protect Americans at home from terrorism like the
>>>> Sept. 11 attacks four years ago.
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
>>>>
>>>> "I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam
>>>> Hussein, you're a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that
>>>> threat, as far as I-concerned." -George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec.
>>>> 12, 2005
>>>>
>>>> And those took me about a minute to dig up. I can find as many as
>>>> you want with Bush, Cheney, and Rusmfeld linking the two. If you
>>>> did not recognize them as doing so, you are probably the only
>>>> person in America who didn't.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes and you still haven't found an argument that says Iraq was
>>> behind the 9/11 attacks. And the reason you haven't is..because
>>> that wasn't the argument. That was a strawman 4 years ago. Your
>>> side floated it up repeatedly and it was ignored because it was not
>>> the argument..no more then the front on the war on terror which has
>>> also been underway in the Philipinnes since 9/11 involving US
>>> Military personnel and the Filipino military engaged with
>>> Islamofascist forces on Mindanao would be a sign that we think the
>>> Philippinnes was behind 9/11.
>>
>> Iraq was not behind 9/11.
>
>I know that. And again...since no one has been saying they were that isn't
>much of a pont to keep driving at.
The administration continually linked the two. Why do you suppose that
was? Oh yeah... They wanted to sell the message that Iraq and Al Qaida
were partners in 9/11.
>Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. However,
>> Al Qaida did. And Bush was linking Iraq and Al Qaida at every
>> opportunity as a "guilt by association" tactic.
>>
>
>Indeed. Why is this a problem?
I have told you several times, but you are blinded by either loyalty
or denseness.
> Al Quaida had house setup in Iraq. Theydid
>on and off throughout the late 1990's. As early as 1998 your buddy Bill
>Clinton fired a batch of missiles at Iraq to attack Al Qaida training sites
>in Iraq. Remember that? Wasn't highly effective IMO.
Perhaps you are bitter since he didn't consult with you first.
>> I thought that just everyone was too intelligent to not see through
>> that. I guess I was wrong.
>>
>>>>> That was a strawman by the anti-Bush crowd that never made sense in
>>>>> the first place.
>>>>
>>>> No, Saddam was who Bush always wanted and he took 9/11 and tied
>>>> Saddam to it even there was no justification to do so. Were you not
>>>> paying attention, or were you still focused on how blinded you were
>>>> by your hatred of Clinton?
>>>
>>> The hatred is all coming from you Loki. I am sticking to facts.
>>> You are taking words out of context from 4 years ago to argue points
>>> that were strawmen 4 years ago.
>>
>> I am not taking any words out of context,
>
>Bullshit. That is exactly what you are doing. You are insisting on an
>argument that wasn't ever the debate to begin with.
I am doing no such thing. What purpose do you think there was in
linking Iraq to Al Qaida if not to put the idea in people's minds that
they were involved with the actions of Al Qaida?
>and hate would be
>> exemplified by someone who repeated false charges against Clinton
>> (Guilty of sexual harassment against Monica Lewinski ring a bell?
>Yes. I also remember being absolutely right in that he as guilty of what
>any employer in the country would be cited for sexual misconduct as well as
>lying under oath..to the point that he was impeached and disbarred. What
>does that have to do with this thread other then you alone keep mentioning
>it?
It has to do with the fact that you are delusional with hatred of
Clinton, which in fact is what started this thread. Remember, or too
drunk on Kool-Aid?
>It
>> was one of the first conversations you and I ever had...) and still
>> obsesses over him years after he has left office is clearly guilty of
>> hatred.
>Hmmm..interesting. A couple of quotes in my sig indicate hatred?
Obsession.
> That is
>curious. How about we deal with the current President and the war at hand?
>I mean if you really want to talk about my sig you could at the very least
>look up the quotes and see if the context makes you chuckle.
Why? Nobody but people who are obsessed with hatred of Clinton even
find them relevant anymore.
>>>>> As for WMD..um..wrong...the cause for the WMD action was the
>>>>> actual cease fire of 1991 which required Iraq to present and verify
>>>>> the detruction of their entire inventory. Iraq..never complied.
>>>>> The UN never acted to force compliance. We were in a state of war
>>>>> with Iraq from January 17, 1991 Baghdad time all the way up to the
>>>>> invasion. In 2003 the time was finally taken to force compliance.
>>>>> Since then hundreds of warheads have been found. Evidence is
>>>>> clearly existent in the public domain that large stores of Iraqi
>>>>> WMDs were moved in the final months before the invasion...probably
>>>>> with assistance from some nations that really don't want a major
>>>>> public stink made about it (can you say Russia and Syria?).
>>>>> Again..did you just sleep through the month of June 2006?
>>>>
>>>> The notion that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to use them was the
>>>> other justification for the invasion.
>>
>>> It was one major justification..and it was true.
>>
>> It was one of two (with the link to 9/11) and no matter how often you
>> repeat it, it is not true.
>Debate by assertion only works if you are arguing with your 3 year old
>child..and then only part of the time. There was no link to 9/11 argument
>made by the pro-invasion side. Your side's vapid insistence that somehow
>the argument must be framed that way was rejected 3 1/2 years ago and your
>attempt to revise this history to fuel whatever hatefest you are on doesn't
>much matter to me. It is complete nonsense.
It is no such thing. Bush took the anger people felt towards Al Qaida
because of 9/11, attached it to Iraq, and used it as a justification
to invade a sovereign nation.
>The debate began and ended with the cease fire of 1991 and what was required
>of Iraq. Iraq's support of terror compounded by their maintenance of
>weapons that were banned by that very cease fire required a response. The
>response came in the spring of 2003 swiftly.
Where are these weapons you are referring to? Do you mean the ones
that have been unusable as effective weapons since Papa Bush left
office?
>>>> "We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical
>>>> and biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our
>>>> entrance into Iraq." -George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2,
>>>> 2003
>>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed. And I know for a fact that this was true too...as do
>>> several of my friends. So what is your issue with this statement?
>>
>> The issue is that Bush claimed that he knew that there were WMDs and
>> that he would find them. There weren't and he didn't.
>>
>
>Except that there were and we did...but again...little thing called facts
>gets in the way.
It appears as if they do. Weapons that have not been functional since
1991 are not a threat to the United States. Those are the facts, the
ones you don't like to admit to.
>>>> "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
>>>> sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -George W.
>>>> Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that
>>>> administration officials knew at the time to be false
>>
>>> Um..wrong. And this is part of the commentary that led to the
>>> CIA/Valerie Plame scandalfest of the last 3 years. And as it has
>>> turned out the jury at worst remains out on these claims.
>>
>> Um... Not wrong.
>Yes wrong. GOODNESS!!! This was all about the yellow cake debate.
>Something that has been debated for more then 3 years quite publically and
>was probably based on foreign intelligence agencies reporting that
>conflicted with some CIA analysis. That is the whole story on that so far
>as you or I could possibly know. So you are asserting that the
>administration essentially lied in that the President said somethign that he
>knew to be false..even though that very point may well be actually TRUE?!!!
>Wow.
The administration knew that Saddam was not importing Uranium, but it
made for a better story if they said he was. Yes, Bush lied.
>>>> And while they may have found warheads, they were about as much a
>>>> threat to us as the Indian arrow heads found at your local museum.
>>>> They were obsolete before Clinton took office.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Says you in your expertise..but not anyone that knows anything about
>>> such weapons.
>>
>> Sorry Charley, but I do know what I am talking about. The warheads
>> were not usable. Unless they were dropped on someone they would be no
>> threat.
>Yes..I should take the word of...who the Hell are you again? You don't know
>what you are talking about.
Eat me asshole. I am done with this.
Loki
To support our men and women overseas
who may not be getting packages from home,
you can get some ideas as to how to do so at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
It is a non profit, volunteer run organization.
I encourage everyone to check it out,
respond from the heart, and pass it
along to anyone you think may want
to remember our overseas military personnel,
throughout the year.
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086897 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 19:22 |
|
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:17:32 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
<C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> enlightened us:
>Loki wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know
>>>> politics.
>>>>
>>>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>>>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship
>>>> between Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As
>>>> evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin
>>>> Laden in Sudan. "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush
>>>> said.
>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link
>>> between Iraq and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida
>>> which has been stated a million times over the last 4 years. Your
>>> side tries to make a link between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an
>>> argument that Iraq was behind 9/11...this isn't the argument and
>>> never was.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
>> interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
>> sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>>
>
>I am suggesting nothing. I am stating specifically what I and my side was
>stating in 2003. A relationship between Iraq and Al Quaida does not equate
>to saying Iraq was behind 9/11. Bush was not claiming Iraq was behind 9/11.
>Cheney wasn't. Rumsfeld wasn't and neither was Powell. The fact is Iraq
>did have a pre-existing relationship with Al Qaida as well as other major
>terror organizations. The other fact is that the left has largely ignored
>this and it is starting to really smack at you guys as more and more of this
>stuff comes out publically in ways that just can't be discarded.
>
I am enjoying the back and forth you are having with Loki on this and
don't really want to get involved, but I must speak up and point out
that on the issue of Bush trying to link Saddam to 9/11 you are
absolutely wrong. In fact Cheney still believes it. Read the
newspaper article from September 16, 2003 at:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
Also Bush himself finally admitted there was no evidence of an Al
Qaeda/Iraq/Saddam Huessen link whatsoever in September of 2003. Read
the story at:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/140133_bushiraq18.htm l
Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Bin Laden urged muslim and Iraqis to
overthrow Saddam calling him an "infidel".
Read about it at:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm
>Hell, Zarkawai setup Al Quaida in Iraq a full year before we invaded Iraq.
>Does that somehow also escape your notice?
>
That is uncorroboraded speculation. Colin Powell presented that
arguement (Al Zarqwai having a camp in northern Iraq with the blessing
of Saddam) at his infamous UN Speech in Feb. 2003. The whole premise
was based on the existence of a chemical-biological weapons plant in
Northern Iraq producing ricin, sarin and other biological weapons,
allegedly to be used in terror attacks on the US and Western Europe.
These were allegedly established by Al Zarqwai.
One problem though. They didn't exist. With reference to the North
Iraqi facility where the ricin was allegedly produced, The London
Observer's correspondent in Northern Iraq (9 February 2003) blatantly
refutes Colin Powell's statement:
" There is no sign of chemical weapons anywhere - only the smell
of paraffin and vegetable butter used for cooking. In the kitchen, I
discovered some chopped up tomatoes but not much else. The cook had
left his Kalashnikov propped neatly against the wall. Ansar al-Islam -
the Islamic group that uses the compound identified as a military HQ
by Powell - yesterday invited me and several other foreign journalists
into their territory for the first time. 'We are just a group of
Muslims trying to do our duty,' Mohammad Hasan, spokes-man for Ansar
al-Islam, explained. 'We don't have any drugs for our fighters. We
don't even have any aspirin. How can we produce any chemicals or
weapons of mass destruction?'"
Barely a few weeks later, at the height of the military campaign, US
Special Forces, together with their "embedded" journalists, entered
the alleged chemical biological weapons facility in Northern Iraq:
"What they found was a camp devastated by cruise missile strikes
during the first days of the war. A specialized biochemical team
scoured the rubble for samples. They wore protective masks as they
entered a building they suspected was a weapons lab. Inside they found
mortar shells, medical supplies, and grim prison cells, but no
immediate proof of chemical or biological agents. For this unit, such
evidence would have been a so-called smoking gun, proof that it has
banned weapons. But instead, this was a disappointing day for these
troops on the front line of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction
here. Jim Sciutto, ABC News, with US Special Forces in Northern Iraq "
(ABC News, 29 March 2003)
Al Zaqawi was in Iraq but the best evidence says he got there after
the US invaded and was not there prior to this time. He was too busy
doing things in Afghanistan, hiding out in Iran and plotting carnage
against Jordan and other places in Europe. A really thorough article
about him can be read at:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO405B.html
<snip>
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir'
without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"
-- Homer Simpson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086904 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 23:31 |
|
I'll be curious if any of this has any impact at all on the belief system of
Charles. I'd bet against it, which is why I won't waste my time doing
research which I expect will be disregarded.
"SkippyPB" <swiegand [at] neo.rr.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:08jfb2t13r4k4tk60jj9uk18tk2gpg1a58 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:17:32 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> enlightened us:
>
>>Loki wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know
>>>>> politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>>>>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship
>>>>> between Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As
>>>>> evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin
>>>>> Laden in Sudan. "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush
>>>>> said.
>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link
>>>> between Iraq and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida
>>>> which has been stated a million times over the last 4 years. Your
>>>> side tries to make a link between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an
>>>> argument that Iraq was behind 9/11...this isn't the argument and
>>>> never was.
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
>>> interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
>>> sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>>>
>>
>>I am suggesting nothing. I am stating specifically what I and my side was
>>stating in 2003. A relationship between Iraq and Al Quaida does not
>>equate
>>to saying Iraq was behind 9/11. Bush was not claiming Iraq was behind
>>9/11.
>>Cheney wasn't. Rumsfeld wasn't and neither was Powell. The fact is Iraq
>>did have a pre-existing relationship with Al Qaida as well as other major
>>terror organizations. The other fact is that the left has largely ignored
>>this and it is starting to really smack at you guys as more and more of
>>this
>>stuff comes out publically in ways that just can't be discarded.
>>
>
> I am enjoying the back and forth you are having with Loki on this and
> don't really want to get involved, but I must speak up and point out
> that on the issue of Bush trying to link Saddam to 9/11 you are
> absolutely wrong. In fact Cheney still believes it. Read the
> newspaper article from September 16, 2003 at:
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>
>
> Also Bush himself finally admitted there was no evidence of an Al
> Qaeda/Iraq/Saddam Huessen link whatsoever in September of 2003. Read
> the story at:
>
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/140133_bushiraq18.htm l
>
> Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Bin Laden urged muslim and Iraqis to
> overthrow Saddam calling him an "infidel".
>
> Read about it at:
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm
>
>>Hell, Zarkawai setup Al Quaida in Iraq a full year before we invaded Iraq.
>>Does that somehow also escape your notice?
>>
> That is uncorroboraded speculation. Colin Powell presented that
> arguement (Al Zarqwai having a camp in northern Iraq with the blessing
> of Saddam) at his infamous UN Speech in Feb. 2003. The whole premise
> was based on the existence of a chemical-biological weapons plant in
> Northern Iraq producing ricin, sarin and other biological weapons,
> allegedly to be used in terror attacks on the US and Western Europe.
> These were allegedly established by Al Zarqwai.
>
> One problem though. They didn't exist. With reference to the North
> Iraqi facility where the ricin was allegedly produced, The London
> Observer's correspondent in Northern Iraq (9 February 2003) blatantly
> refutes Colin Powell's statement:
>
> " There is no sign of chemical weapons anywhere - only the smell
> of paraffin and vegetable butter used for cooking. In the kitchen, I
> discovered some chopped up tomatoes but not much else. The cook had
> left his Kalashnikov propped neatly against the wall. Ansar al-Islam -
> the Islamic group that uses the compound identified as a military HQ
> by Powell - yesterday invited me and several other foreign journalists
> into their territory for the first time. 'We are just a group of
> Muslims trying to do our duty,' Mohammad Hasan, spokes-man for Ansar
> al-Islam, explained. 'We don't have any drugs for our fighters. We
> don't even have any aspirin. How can we produce any chemicals or
> weapons of mass destruction?'"
>
> Barely a few weeks later, at the height of the military campaign, US
> Special Forces, together with their "embedded" journalists, entered
> the alleged chemical biological weapons facility in Northern Iraq:
>
> "What they found was a camp devastated by cruise missile strikes
> during the first days of the war. A specialized biochemical team
> scoured the rubble for samples. They wore protective masks as they
> entered a building they suspected was a weapons lab. Inside they found
> mortar shells, medical supplies, and grim prison cells, but no
> immediate proof of chemical or biological agents. For this unit, such
> evidence would have been a so-called smoking gun, proof that it has
> banned weapons. But instead, this was a disappointing day for these
> troops on the front line of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction
> here. Jim Sciutto, ABC News, with US Special Forces in Northern Iraq "
> (ABC News, 29 March 2003)
>
> Al Zaqawi was in Iraq but the best evidence says he got there after
> the US invaded and was not there prior to this time. He was too busy
> doing things in Afghanistan, hiding out in Iran and plotting carnage
> against Jordan and other places in Europe. A really thorough article
> about him can be read at:
>
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO405B.html
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Regards,
> ////
> (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
>
> "Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir'
> without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"
> -- Homer Simpson
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Remove nospam to email me.
>
> Steve
|
|
|
| Re: a boxing tournament online [message #1086932 ] |
Sa, 15 Juli 2006 18:06 |
|
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:31:07 -0700, "The Sanity Cruzer"
<sanitycruzeNrO [at] eSaPrAtMhlink.net> enlightened us:
>I'll be curious if any of this has any impact at all on the belief system of
>Charles. I'd bet against it, which is why I won't waste my time doing
>research which I expect will be disregarded.
>
You're probably right, but I had to give it a shot :)
>"SkippyPB" <swiegand [at] neo.rr.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
>news:08jfb2t13r4k4tk60jj9uk18tk2gpg1a58 [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:17:32 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> enlightened us:
>>
>>>Loki wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:17:25 -0700, "Charles Beauchamp"
>>>> <C.E.Beauchamp [at] NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Charles, I am glad that you know boxing better than you know
>>>>>> politics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between
>>>>>> Iraq and Saddam and al Qaida: because there was a relationship
>>>>>> between Iraq and al Qaida," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As
>>>>>> evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers' meeting with bin
>>>>>> Laden in Sudan. "There's numerous contacts between the two," Bush
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun 17.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading is fundamental. The above quote does not show a link
>>>>> between Iraq and 9/11. It shows a link between Iraq and Al Quaida
>>>>> which has been stated a million times over the last 4 years. Your
>>>>> side tries to make a link between Iraq and Al Quaida somehow an
>>>>> argument that Iraq was behind 9/11...this isn't the argument and
>>>>> never was.
>>>>
>>>> Are you suggesting that Bush was not using Al Qaida and 9/11
>>>> interchangeably? Because if you are, you are probably also trying to
>>>> sell bridges. And I am not buying either.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I am suggesting nothing. I am stating specifically what I and my side was
>>>stating in 2003. A relationship between Iraq and Al Quaida does not
>>>equate
>>>to saying Iraq was behind 9/11. Bush was not claiming Iraq was behind
>>>9/11.
>>>Cheney wasn't. Rumsfeld wasn't and neither was Powell. The fact is Iraq
>>>did have a pre-existing relationship with Al Qaida as well as other major
>>>terror organizations. The other fact is that the left has largely ignored
>>>this and it is starting to really smack at you guys as more and more of
>>>this
>>>stuff comes out publically in ways that just can't be discarded.
>>>
>>
>> I am enjoying the back and forth you are having with Loki on this and
>> don't really want to get involved, but I must speak up and point out
>> that on the issue of Bush trying to link Saddam to 9/11 you are
>> absolutely wrong. In fact Cheney still believes it. Read the
>> newspaper article from September 16, 2003 at:
>>
>> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney _link_of_iraq_911_challenged/
>>
>>
>> Also Bush himself finally admitted there was no evidence of an Al
>> Qaeda/Iraq/Saddam Huessen link whatsoever in September of 2003. Read
>> the story at:
>>
>> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/140133_bushiraq18.htm l
>>
>> Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Bin Laden urged muslim and Iraqis to
>> overthrow Saddam calling him an "infidel".
>>
>> Read about it at:
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm
>>
>>>Hell, Zarkawai setup Al Quaida in Iraq a full year before we invaded Iraq.
>>>Does that somehow also escape your notice?
>>>
>> That is uncorroboraded speculation. Colin Powell presented that
>> arguement (Al Zarqwai having a camp in northern Iraq with the blessing
>> of Saddam) at his infamous UN Speech in Feb. 2003. The whole premise
>> was based on the existence of a chemical-biological weapons plant in
>> Northern Iraq producing ricin, sarin and other biological weapons,
>> allegedly to be used in terror attacks on the US and Western Europe.
>> These were allegedly established by Al Zarqwai.
>>
>> One problem though. They didn't exist. With reference to the North
>> Iraqi facility where the ricin was allegedly produced, The London
>> Observer's correspondent in Northern Iraq (9 February 2003) blatantly
>> refutes Colin Powell's statement:
>>
>> " There is no sign of chemical weapons anywhere - only the smell
>> of paraffin and vegetable butter used for cooking. In the kitchen, I
>> discovered some chopped up tomatoes but not much else. The cook had
>> left his Kalashnikov propped neatly against the wall. Ansar al-Islam -
>> the Islamic group that uses the compound identified as a military HQ
>> by Powell - yesterday invited me and several other foreign journalists
>> into their territory for the first time. 'We are just a group of
>> Muslims trying to do our duty,' Mohammad Hasan, spokes-man for Ansar
>> al-Islam, explained. 'We don't have any drugs for our fighters. We
>> don't even have any aspirin. How can we produce any chemicals or
>> weapons of mass destruction?'"
>>
>> Barely a few weeks later, at the height of the military campaign, US
>> Special Forces, together with their "embedded" journalists, entered
>> the alleged chemical biological weapons facility in Northern Iraq:
>>
>> "What they found was a camp devastated by cruise missile strikes
>> during the first days of the war. A specialized biochemical team
>> scoured the rubble for samples. They wore protective masks as they
>> entered a building they suspected was a weapons lab. Inside they found
>> mortar shells, medical supplies, and grim prison cells, but no
>> immediate proof of chemical or biological agents. For this unit, such
>> evidence would have been a so-called smoking gun, proof that it has
>> banned weapons. But instead, this was a disappointing day for these
>> troops on the front line of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction
>> here. Jim Sciutto, ABC News, with US Special Forces in Northern Iraq "
>> (ABC News, 29 March 2003)
>>
>> Al Zaqawi was in Iraq but the best evidence says he got there after
>> the US invaded and was not there prior to this time. He was too busy
>> doing things in Afghanistan, hiding out in Iran and plotting carnage
>> against Jordan and other places in Europe. A really thorough article
>> about him can be read at:
>>
>> http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO405B.html
>>
>>
>> <snip>
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir'
without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"
-- Homer Simpson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
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