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Sports » rec.sport.billiard » IPT Rules - I would change one thing
| IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073548] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 19:30 |
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http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_rules/d efault.asp
If you read the IPT rules for 8-ball, you will notice that the shooter
must break by hitting the 1-ball first (on the spot) and must break from
within a box formed by the head string and the two diamonds on the short
rail (no breaking from the rail).
Considering that Mr.Trudeau stated that the IPT wants to remove "luck"
from the game, why do they reward an 8-ball on the break as a win???
How many people out there can honestly say that they can perform a break
under these conditions and put the 8-ball in WITHOUT luck?
My idea is to only count an 8-ball on the break win if the player called
a pocket before the shot.
Vinnie
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073549 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 19:43 |
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Vinnie wrote:
> http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_rules/d efault.asp
>
> If you read the IPT rules for 8-ball, you will notice that the shooter
> must break by hitting the 1-ball first (on the spot)
I cannot fathom why it is desireable to have a specific ball on the
spot, or why it would be the 1.
> and must break from
> within a box formed by the head string and the two diamonds on the short
> rail (no breaking from the rail).
I suppose the rule helps prevent illegal breaks.
> Considering that Mr.Trudeau stated that the IPT wants to remove "luck"
> from the game, why do they reward an 8-ball on the break as a win???
>
> How many people out there can honestly say that they can perform a break
> under these conditions and put the 8-ball in WITHOUT luck?
Me, for one. I always approach the break with the intention of
pocketing the 8 if that's going to win the game. I just miss
occasionally.
> My idea is to only count an 8-ball on the break win if the player called
> a pocket before the shot.
Then everyone would call the 8 on the break, wouldn't they?
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073553 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 20:14 |
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Dhakala wrote:
> Vinnie wrote:
> I cannot fathom why it is desireable to have a specific ball on the
> spot, or why it would be the 1.
In conjunction with the rule that you have to hit the head ball in the
pack it makes it easier to tell that you've hit the head ball first if
you know which one to look for. Plus it's traditional to put the one
ball on the head of the pack for a lot of 8 ball players. It does seem
odd that they insist on the head-ball only break, as many good 8 ball
players like the second-row cut break. Then again that is usually done
from the side rail, which is out of the question for the IPT anyhoo.
>> My idea is to only count an 8-ball on the break win if the player called
>> a pocket before the shot.
>
> Then everyone would call the 8 on the break, wouldn't they?
If you call the 8 and make another ball instead (far more likely)
wouldn't you then lose your turn as you the un-called ball would not
count? Honestly, if this is the way the IPT will go they should just
play Straight Pool and be done with it.
My guess is the 8 ball win is done for the same reason as 9 ball; to
encourage powerful break shots that are great fun for the spectators and
TV audience. The last thing they want to encourage is safety breaks
designed to not make a ball and put your opponent in jail with no
run-out opportunity.
--
Aunty Dan (Remove "X" from "XHotmail.com" to reply directly)
------------------------------------------
"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoisted with his own petard."
- W. Shakespeare
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073556 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 20:20 |
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> ...
>> How many people out there can honestly say that they can perform a break
>> under these conditions and put the 8-ball in WITHOUT luck?
>
> Me, for one. I always approach the break with the intention of
> pocketing the 8 if that's going to win the game. I just miss
> occasionally.
>
>> My idea is to only count an 8-ball on the break win if the player called
>> a pocket before the shot.
>
> Then everyone would call the 8 on the break, wouldn't they?
>
When you execute your break shot intending to pocket the 8, are you
actually aiming for a pocket or just trying to get the 8 moving? How
much skill is involved other than breaking hard? Calling the 8 on the
break would at least require some skill in moving the 8 in the right
direction. I'm just saying that it would not seem fair if in the finals
of a big $200,000 tournament, hill/hill, someone gets an 8-ball break. I
know I would be pissed if I lost or I would feel guilty if I won.
Vinnie
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073557 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 20:34 |
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Aunty Dan wrote:
> Dhakala wrote:
> > Vinnie wrote:
> > I cannot fathom why it is desireable to have a specific ball on the
> > spot, or why it would be the 1.
>
> In conjunction with the rule that you have to hit the head ball in the
> pack it makes it easier to tell that you've hit the head ball first if
> you know which one to look for.
Wouldn't it be the ball that YOU placed on the spot while racking? :-)
> Plus it's traditional to put the one
> ball on the head of the pack for a lot of 8 ball players.
Ah, tradition. Carry on, then.
> If you call the 8 and make another ball instead (far more likely)
> wouldn't you then lose your turn
Well, if one shoots really sloppily, I suppose that could happen. ;-)
> My guess is the 8 ball win is done for the same reason as 9 ball; to
> encourage powerful break shots that are great fun for the spectators and
> TV audience. The last thing they want to encourage is safety breaks
> designed to not make a ball and put your opponent in jail with no
> run-out opportunity.
Perhaps they should spot the breaker a ball if he exceeds a specified
decibel level. :-)
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073558 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 20:42 |
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Vinnie wrote:
> When you execute your break shot intending to pocket the 8, are you
> actually aiming for a pocket
The right side pocket, if the rack is good. Otherwise, it depends on
how the rack is cocked and/or which balls are not touching.
> How much skill is involved other than breaking hard?
All the skill you have, just like any other shot. And, as we've
discussed many times here, it is not desirable to break hard.
> I'm just saying that it would not seem fair if in the finals
> of a big $200,000 tournament, hill/hill, someone gets an 8-ball break. I
> know I would be pissed if I lost or I would feel guilty if I won.
The concept of "fairness" exists only in men's delusions. It cannot be
found elsewhere in nature. Practicing Zen Cueism will cleanse your mind
and allow you enjoy victory and defeat equally.
I wonder why you would direct ill feeling towards yourself if you won,
and towards whom or what you would direct it if you lost?
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073562 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 21:19 |
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Dhakala wrote:
> Vinnie wrote:
>
>> When you execute your break shot intending to pocket the 8, are you
>> actually aiming for a pocket
>
> The right side pocket, if the rack is good. Otherwise, it depends on
> how the rack is cocked and/or which balls are not touching.
>
>> How much skill is involved other than breaking hard?
>
> All the skill you have, just like any other shot. And, as we've
> discussed many times here, it is not desirable to break hard.
>
>> I'm just saying that it would not seem fair if in the finals
>> of a big $200,000 tournament, hill/hill, someone gets an 8-ball break. I
>> know I would be pissed if I lost or I would feel guilty if I won.
>
> The concept of "fairness" exists only in men's delusions. It cannot be
> found elsewhere in nature. Practicing Zen Cueism will cleanse your mind
> and allow you enjoy victory and defeat equally.
>
> I wonder why you would direct ill feeling towards yourself if you won,
> and towards whom or what you would direct it if you lost?
>
I'm just questioning how much skill is actually involved in
accomplishing an 8-ball break. I think that there is way to many
variables involved in a 15-ball combination shot, especially on a head
ball break from the center of the table. To me, there is way more luck
involved than skill, so I would feel guilty of getting the "lame" win. I
would rather win $200,000 on a break and run. I would rather have people
say "he deserved that win" than "man, did he get lucky".
Next time you break and make the 8 in the right side pocket try to pay
attention as to whether or not the 8 goes straight from the rack to the
pocket or gets help from other moving balls. If it gets help, is it
always getting the same help, or is it random help?
Vinnie
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073566 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:16 |
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Does anyone know how many times the 8 went in on the break in the KoH
tourney. My guess is not often if at all. So it's kind of a pointless rule
and pointless argument.
Ed
Vinnie <vinnie [at] cbnn.net> wrote in message
news:bdd6f$44b69cbb$40711857$5540 [at] donobi.com...
> I'm just questioning how much skill is actually involved in
> accomplishing an 8-ball break. I think that there is way to many
> variables involved in a 15-ball combination shot, especially on a head
> ball break from the center of the table. To me, there is way more luck
> involved than skill, so I would feel guilty of getting the "lame" win. I
> would rather win $200,000 on a break and run. I would rather have people
> say "he deserved that win" than "man, did he get lucky".
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073578 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 03:04 |
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Vinnie wrote:
> I'm just questioning how much skill is actually involved in
> accomplishing an 8-ball break. I think that there is way to many
> variables involved in a 15-ball combination shot, especially on a head
> ball break from the center of the table. To me, there is way more luck
> involved than skill, so I would feel guilty of getting the "lame" win. I
> would rather win $200,000 on a break and run. I would rather have people
> say "he deserved that win" than "man, did he get lucky".
I guess you mean you'd rather have people see how you did it. :-)
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073585 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 05:43 |
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"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in
news:1152816163.411701.238620 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> I wonder why you would direct ill feeling towards yourself if you won,
> and towards whom or what you would direct it if you lost?
When I win, I tend to blame it on myself.
-B ..without reproach nigh on 6 years now...
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| Re: IPT Rules - I would change one thing [message #1073593 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 08:42 |
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> The right side pocket, if the rack is good. Otherwise, it depends on
> how the rack is cocked and/or which balls are not touching.
Ah, now I can tell my story. I agree, if the 8 ball is sunk by hitting the
second ball in the rack from the left rail, it will most likely go in the
right side pocket and next likely the corner pocket to the breaker's right.
About seven years ago, I was playing a friend of mine and a friend of his I
had never met before was also present. I broke from the left rail and sank
the 8 ball in the corner pocket to my right causing my opponent to utter
that I could not do that again in a million years. Opportunity knocked, so
I simply said OK, this time I will put the eight in the right side pocket.
He racked, I broke and the 8 went into the right side pocket like a bullet.
He threw his hands in the air in disgust and went to the bar. As he did,
his friend came to me a bit awestruck and asked, "How do you do that?"
Resisting the temptation to just reply...PRACTICE!, I said, "There is only
one way to do that, you have to be very...very...very...LUCKY!"
I do not remember ever sinking the 8 on the break twice in a row before.
"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152816163.411701.238620 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Vinnie wrote:
>
>> When you execute your break shot intending to pocket the 8, are you
>> actually aiming for a pocket
>
> The right side pocket, if the rack is good. Otherwise, it depends on
> how the rack is cocked and/or which balls are not touching.
>
>> How much skill is involved other than breaking hard?
>
> All the skill you have, just like any other shot. And, as we've
> discussed many times here, it is not desirable to break hard.
>
>> I'm just saying that it would not seem fair if in the finals
>> of a big $200,000 tournament, hill/hill, someone gets an 8-ball break. I
>> know I would be pissed if I lost or I would feel guilty if I won.
>
> The concept of "fairness" exists only in men's delusions. It cannot be
> found elsewhere in nature. Practicing Zen Cueism will cleanse your mind
> and allow you enjoy victory and defeat equally.
>
> I wonder why you would direct ill feeling towards yourself if you won,
> and towards whom or what you would direct it if you lost?
>
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