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Sports » rec.sport.billiard » snooker tips
| snooker tips [message #1072659] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 19:38 |
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Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what size tips
PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or thought
it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for telling).
Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some go all
the way down to 12mm.
In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips used in
snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other reason.
A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm tip on
a 52.387mm ball.
For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a 9.5mm tip,
a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to get their
input also.
TIA Sincerely, Sam
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072661 ] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 20:43 |
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sincerely wrote:
> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what size tips
> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or thought
> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for telling).
> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
And what would that reason be?
> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some go all
> the way down to 12mm.
Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips used in
> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other reason.
Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
snooker cues' shafts.
> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm tip on
> a 52.387mm ball.
I'll try to remember that.
> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a 9.5mm tip,
> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072663 ] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 21:41 |
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"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
> hitting a ball "just so."
OUCH!
This should bring about some interesting comments.
SS
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072668 ] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 23:09 |
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"Superseal" <superseal [at] optonline.net> wrote in message
news:9IGgg.24$IP7.18 [at] fe10.lga...
>
> "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
>> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
>> hitting a ball "just so."
>
> OUCH!
>
> This should bring about some interesting comments.
>
> SS
like...
yup, I've been doing it right all along then.
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072669 ] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 23:30 |
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Superseal wrote:
> "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
> > manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
> > hitting a ball "just so."
>
> OUCH!
>
> This should bring about some interesting comments.
Ask a silly question... :-)
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072670 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 00:13 |
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Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
flawed.
If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> sincerely wrote:
>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>> size tips
>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>> thought
>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>> telling).
>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>
> And what would that reason be?
>
>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
>> go all
>> the way down to 12mm.
>
> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
>
>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
>
> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
>
>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>> used in
>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>> reason.
>
> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
> snooker cues' shafts.
>
>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>> tip on
>> a 52.387mm ball.
>
> I'll try to remember that.
>
>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>> 9.5mm tip,
>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>
> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
>
> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
>
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072673 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 00:52 |
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Thank you Potblak. I didn't think of the weight difference. :o) Sincerely,
Sam (but still doesn't understand why a smaller tip would be used on a lighter
ball)
In article <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
Potblak says...
>
>Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
>flawed.
>
>If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
>found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
>
>Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
>
>"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> sincerely wrote:
>>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>>> size tips
>>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>>> thought
>>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>>> telling).
>>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>>
>> And what would that reason be?
>>
>>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
>>> go all
>>> the way down to 12mm.
>>
>> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
>>
>>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
>>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
>>
>> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
>>
>>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>>> used in
>>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>>> reason.
>>
>> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
>> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
>> snooker cues' shafts.
>>
>>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>>> tip on
>>> a 52.387mm ball.
>>
>> I'll try to remember that.
>>
>>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>>> 9.5mm tip,
>>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>>
>> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
>>
>> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
>> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
>> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
>>
>
>
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072674 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 01:36 |
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Squirt is proportional to the ratio of tip mass to ball mass. A snooker
ball is less massive than a pool ball, so a less massive tip is needed
to maintain the same (low) amount of squirt. Reducing the size of the
tip is the simplest way to reduce its mass. That's one possibility.
It's also possible that snooker cues evolved into pool cues, with their
tips becoming larger and more massive as pool balls became heavier and
gameplay became rougher, in order to take the additional punishment.
Sincerely wrote:
> Thank you Potblak. I didn't think of the weight difference. :o) Sincerely,
> Sam (but still doesn't understand why a smaller tip would be used on a lighter
> ball)
>
>
>
> In article <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> Potblak says...
> >
> >Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
> >flawed.
> >
> >If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
> >found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
> >
> >Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
> >
> >"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> sincerely wrote:
> >>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
> >>> size tips
> >>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
> >>> thought
> >>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
> >>> telling).
> >>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
> >>
> >> And what would that reason be?
> >>
> >>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
> >>> go all
> >>> the way down to 12mm.
> >>
> >> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
> >>
> >>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
> >>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
> >>
> >> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
> >>
> >>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
> >>> used in
> >>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
> >>> reason.
> >>
> >> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
> >> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
> >> snooker cues' shafts.
> >>
> >>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
> >>> tip on
> >>> a 52.387mm ball.
> >>
> >> I'll try to remember that.
> >>
> >>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
> >>> 9.5mm tip,
> >>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
> >>
> >> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
> >>
> >> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
> >> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
> >> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
> >>
> >
> >
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072679 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 03:04 |
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Thanks Dhakala, interesting theories. I went from a 9.7mm cue to an 11mm in
snooker and seem to be more accurate. I am trying to find out what I have
sacrificed by going to the larger tip. My breaks (good ones) have gone from the
twenties to the thirties either because of more confidence in the larger tip or
simply the ability to control the white better.
I now shoot with a Bob Renis diamondwood cue because I can get an "ash" feel and
yet have a PRO taper because of the hardness of diamondwood. Hey, works for me.
:o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <1149464186.012957.129740 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Dhakala
says...
>
>Squirt is proportional to the ratio of tip mass to ball mass. A snooker
>ball is less massive than a pool ball, so a less massive tip is needed
>to maintain the same (low) amount of squirt. Reducing the size of the
>tip is the simplest way to reduce its mass. That's one possibility.
>
>It's also possible that snooker cues evolved into pool cues, with their
>tips becoming larger and more massive as pool balls became heavier and
>gameplay became rougher, in order to take the additional punishment.
>
>Sincerely wrote:
>> Thank you Potblak. I didn't think of the weight difference. :o) Sincerely,
>>Sam (but still doesn't understand why a smaller tip would be used on a lighter
>> ball)
>>
>>
>>
>> In article <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
>> Potblak says...
>> >
>> >Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
>> >flawed.
>> >
>> >If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
>> >found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
>> >
>> >Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
>> >
>> >"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> sincerely wrote:
>> >>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>> >>> size tips
>> >>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>> >>> thought
>> >>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>> >>> telling).
>> >>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>> >>
>> >> And what would that reason be?
>> >>
>> >>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
>> >>> go all
>> >>> the way down to 12mm.
>> >>
>> >> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
>> >>
>> >>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
>> >>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
>> >>
>> >> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
>> >>
>> >>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>> >>> used in
>> >>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>> >>> reason.
>> >>
>> >> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
>> >> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
>> >> snooker cues' shafts.
>> >>
>> >>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>> >>> tip on
>> >>> a 52.387mm ball.
>> >>
>> >> I'll try to remember that.
>> >>
>> >>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>> >>> 9.5mm tip,
>> >>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>> >>
>> >> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
>> >>
>> >> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
>> >> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
>> >> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072680 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 03:43 |
|
You've probably sacrificed the respect of your peers, who now view you
as a coarse, vulgar American ball-basher. :-)
Diamondwood is a trade name for any species of wood that has been
treated with a proprietary resin-impregnation process. There's cherry
Diamondwood, cocobola Diamondwood, etc. Any idea what species your cue
is? I would think any Diamondwood would be pretty dense; is your cue
pretty heavy?
Sincerely wrote:
> Thanks Dhakala, interesting theories. I went from a 9.7mm cue to an 11mm in
> snooker and seem to be more accurate. I am trying to find out what I have
> sacrificed by going to the larger tip. My breaks (good ones) have gone from the
> twenties to the thirties either because of more confidence in the larger tip or
> simply the ability to control the white better.
> I now shoot with a Bob Renis diamondwood cue because I can get an "ash" feel and
> yet have a PRO taper because of the hardness of diamondwood. Hey, works for me.
> :o) Sincerely, Sam
>
>
> In article <1149464186.012957.129740 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Dhakala
> says...
> >
> >Squirt is proportional to the ratio of tip mass to ball mass. A snooker
> >ball is less massive than a pool ball, so a less massive tip is needed
> >to maintain the same (low) amount of squirt. Reducing the size of the
> >tip is the simplest way to reduce its mass. That's one possibility.
> >
> >It's also possible that snooker cues evolved into pool cues, with their
> >tips becoming larger and more massive as pool balls became heavier and
> >gameplay became rougher, in order to take the additional punishment.
> >
> >Sincerely wrote:
> >> Thank you Potblak. I didn't think of the weight difference. :o) Sincerely,
> >>Sam (but still doesn't understand why a smaller tip would be used on a lighter
> >> ball)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In article <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> >> Potblak says...
> >> >
> >> >Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
> >> >flawed.
> >> >
> >> >If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
> >> >found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
> >> >
> >> >Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
> >> >
> >> >"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> sincerely wrote:
> >> >>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
> >> >>> size tips
> >> >>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
> >> >>> thought
> >> >>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
> >> >>> telling).
> >> >>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
> >> >>
> >> >> And what would that reason be?
> >> >>
> >> >>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
> >> >>> go all
> >> >>> the way down to 12mm.
> >> >>
> >> >> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
> >> >>
> >> >>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
> >> >>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
> >> >>
> >> >> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
> >> >>
> >> >>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
> >> >>> used in
> >> >>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
> >> >>> reason.
> >> >>
> >> >> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
> >> >> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
> >> >> snooker cues' shafts.
> >> >>
> >> >>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
> >> >>> tip on
> >> >>> a 52.387mm ball.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll try to remember that.
> >> >>
> >> >>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
> >> >>> 9.5mm tip,
> >> >>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
> >> >>
> >> >> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
> >> >>
> >> >> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
> >> >> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
> >> >> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072681 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 03:58 |
|
Hi Sam,
This is just my $.02 on the subject. I think you may be trying to be too
analytical. It's all a matter of preference as to which tip and tip size you
use IMHO. I found my 13mm tip looked really huge, and didn't seem to put the
amount of spin I wanted on the cue ball with snooker, so I went to a 10mm
tip and like it very much. A 9mm just 'looked' too small. Try a few
different club cues with different sizes, pick the best one for you, and put
that one on your personal cue.
CW
<sincerely>; "sam" <sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:159442739.0000280a.060.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
> size tips
> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
> thought
> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
> telling).
> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>
> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
> go all
> the way down to 12mm.
>
> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and
> 11.5mm.
> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
> used in
> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
> reason.
>
> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
> tip on
> a 52.387mm ball.
>
> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a 9.5mm
> tip,
> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>
> I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to get
> their
> input also.
>
> TIA Sincerely, Sam
>
|
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072684 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 04:16 |
|
Sincerely wrote:
> Thanks Dhakala, interesting theories. I went from a 9.7mm cue to an 11mm in
> snooker and seem to be more accurate. I am trying to find out what I have
> sacrificed by going to the larger tip. My breaks (good ones) have gone from the
> twenties to the thirties either because of more confidence in the larger tip or
> simply the ability to control the white better.
> I now shoot with a Bob Renis diamondwood cue because I can get an "ash" feel and
> yet have a PRO taper because of the hardness of diamondwood. Hey, works for me.
> :o) Sincerely, Sam
>
>
The pro taper might also be one of the reasons for a smaller snooker
tip. A 9.5 mm pro taper would probably be far too whippy to be
practical with most woods.
Snooker players tend to an open bridge, which makes the pro taper far
less preferable. The closed bridge more common for pool can be very
uncomfortable with the standard taper used on snooker cues.
Donald
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072685 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 04:27 |
|
Dhakala, the cue is 19oz. I don't know what type it is, but it seems to have a
lot of green, red, and blue-gray in it, as well as normal wood colors. It is
unusual looking, but attractive. Bob Renis is well known (SoCal, he's from
Vista, CA. He is 81 now and still making cues.) for the steering wheel grip. I
have found that this grip helps me loosen up on MY grip because of the ribbed
grip. I can be a chicken choker at times. Also, I have a feeling that with the
flat, mushroomed tip that most snooker players prefer (pros anyway), that they
are really adding over 1mm to the effective size of their tips. Just a thought.
:o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <1149471786.248804.185910 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Dhakala
says...
>
>You've probably sacrificed the respect of your peers, who now view you
>as a coarse, vulgar American ball-basher. :-)
>
>Diamondwood is a trade name for any species of wood that has been
>treated with a proprietary resin-impregnation process. There's cherry
>Diamondwood, cocobola Diamondwood, etc. Any idea what species your cue
>is? I would think any Diamondwood would be pretty dense; is your cue
>pretty heavy?
>
>Sincerely wrote:
>> Thanks Dhakala, interesting theories. I went from a 9.7mm cue to an 11mm in
>> snooker and seem to be more accurate. I am trying to find out what I have
>>sacrificed by going to the larger tip. My breaks (good ones) have gone from the
>>twenties to the thirties either because of more confidence in the larger tip or
>> simply the ability to control the white better.
>>I now shoot with a Bob Renis diamondwood cue because I can get an "ash" feel and
>>yet have a PRO taper because of the hardness of diamondwood. Hey, works for me.
>> :o) Sincerely, Sam
>>
>>
>> In article <1149464186.012957.129740 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Dhakala
>> says...
>> >
>> >Squirt is proportional to the ratio of tip mass to ball mass. A snooker
>> >ball is less massive than a pool ball, so a less massive tip is needed
>> >to maintain the same (low) amount of squirt. Reducing the size of the
>> >tip is the simplest way to reduce its mass. That's one possibility.
>> >
>> >It's also possible that snooker cues evolved into pool cues, with their
>> >tips becoming larger and more massive as pool balls became heavier and
>> >gameplay became rougher, in order to take the additional punishment.
>> >
>> >Sincerely wrote:
>>>> Thank you Potblak. I didn't think of the weight difference. :o) Sincerely,
>>>>Sam (but still doesn't understand why a smaller tip would be used on a lighter
>> >> ball)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In article <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
>> >> Potblak says...
>> >> >
>>>> >Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
>> >> >flawed.
>> >> >
>>>> >If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
>> >> >found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
>> >> >
>> >> >Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
>> >> >
>> >> >"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:1149446603.087424.106790 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> sincerely wrote:
>> >> >>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>> >> >>> size tips
>>>> >>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>> >> >>> thought
>> >> >>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>> >> >>> telling).
>> >> >>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And what would that reason be?
>> >> >>
>>>> >>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
>> >> >>> go all
>> >> >>> the way down to 12mm.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Earl Strickland likes an 11mm shaft.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface ... snooker
>> >> >>> players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would a snooker player want the same ratio as a pool player?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>> >> >>> used in
>> >> >>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>> >> >>> reason.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Curvature of the ball has no effect on tip diamerter. The smaller
>> >> >> diameter tips used in snooker are due to the use of less wood in
>> >> >> snooker cues' shafts.
>> >> >>
>>>> >>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>> >> >>> tip on
>> >> >>> a 52.387mm ball.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'll try to remember that.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>> >> >>> 9.5mm tip,
>> >> >>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would a pool player want a snooker player's ratio?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Pool cue tips are biggger than snooker cue tips because pool is a more
>> >> >> manly game than snooker. Pool players hit harder and aren't fussy about
>> >> >> hitting a ball "just so." So they use a broader, stiffer shaft and tip.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072686 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 04:32 |
|
Thank you CW. I have settled (for now) on an 11mm pro taper, but was curious as
to whether I was sacrificing anything with the larger tip. I do not let my tip
mushroom however, so I may be playing very close say a mushroomed 9.5 or 10mm
standard snooker cue. :o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <udMgg.13692$S61.10245 [at] edtnps90>, CW says...
>
>Hi Sam,
>This is just my $.02 on the subject. I think you may be trying to be too
>analytical. It's all a matter of preference as to which tip and tip size you
>use IMHO. I found my 13mm tip looked really huge, and didn't seem to put the
>amount of spin I wanted on the cue ball with snooker, so I went to a 10mm
>tip and like it very much. A 9mm just 'looked' too small. Try a few
>different club cues with different sizes, pick the best one for you, and put
>that one on your personal cue.
>CW
><sincerely>; "sam" <sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:159442739.0000280a.060.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>> size tips
>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>> thought
>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>> telling).
>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>>
>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some
>> go all
>> the way down to 12mm.
>>
>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
>> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
>> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and
>> 11.5mm.
>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>> used in
>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>> reason.
>>
>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>> tip on
>> a 52.387mm ball.
>>
>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a 9.5mm
>> tip,
>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>>
>> I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to get
>> their
>> input also.
>>
>> TIA Sincerely, Sam
>>
>
>
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072690 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 05:29 |
|
Hi Donald. If I am following you right, you are saying that snooker players use
a smaller tip because snooker cues have a standard taper and if they went to a
larger tip they would be holding a "tree trunk" between their fingers. That
also makes sense. BTW, I tried a diamondwood 9.5mm shaft with pro taper and
hated it. The shaft is hard and can take the taper without being too "whippy",
but passing that 9.5mm pro taper through an open bridge feels like you are
shooting with a long pencil. I had to go to 11mm pro taper before it felt good.
:o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <YtMgg.270$LV.16917 [at] news20.bellglobal.com>, Donald Tees says...
>The pro taper might also be one of the reasons for a smaller snooker
>tip. A 9.5 mm pro taper would probably be far too whippy to be
>practical with most woods.
>
>Snooker players tend to an open bridge, which makes the pro taper far
>less preferable. The closed bridge more common for pool can be very
>uncomfortable with the standard taper used on snooker cues.
>
>Donald
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072692 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 07:57 |
|
This is the sort of discussion we've been missing in this group for quite a
while.
Good, isn't it?
It'd be really interesting (no pun intended!-well only a little!) to find
out what Steve Davies uses on his 9-ball and Snooker cues. Somebody out
there would know, wouldn't they?
Anyway, here's my $0.02 on the discussion since my last contribution.
Quite right about the tip size really following from the shaft stiffness
required to reduce squirt;
BUT I just found out that by changing the taper of the shaft over the last
6" dramatically reduced squirt for my cue which used to have a 10mm tip but
which now sports a 9mm. That followed advice from an ex-pro and a current UK
pro.
Also I can understand what you say about increasing tip size improving
accuracy, Sam. With a larger tip you have a larger flat area near its
centre. This means you can hit the cueball slightly off centre without
imparting unintentional sidespin, thus improving accuracy for us mere
mortals. Its really amazing how much more careful I need to be with my
reduced tip size. But when I need side, I can get it without squirt.
Incidentally, I once had a snooker/UK 8 ball cue with a 10mm tip made for me
while in the Philippines. Whilst still there I tried playing 9 ball with it.
Talk about squirt!!!!! It was terrible.
I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
anyone try them?
Here's another idea;
A dozen years ago I met Anthony Hamilton who used to chamfer the outside
edge of the top of his ferrule at 30-45 degreees. This allowed the tip to
spread around the ferrule without needing to mushroom and, he believed,
allow more agressive spin of all kinds to be imparted. I suspect that's
something just for the pros though.
Martin.
<Sincerely>; "Sam" <Sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:159474771.000158e5.049.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
> Thank you CW. I have settled (for now) on an 11mm pro taper, but was
> curious as
> to whether I was sacrificing anything with the larger tip. I do not let
> my tip
> mushroom however, so I may be playing very close say a mushroomed 9.5 or
> 10mm
> standard snooker cue. :o) Sincerely, Sam
>
>
> In article <udMgg.13692$S61.10245 [at] edtnps90>, CW says...
>>
>>Hi Sam,
>>This is just my $.02 on the subject. I think you may be trying to be too
>>analytical. It's all a matter of preference as to which tip and tip size
>>you
>>use IMHO. I found my 13mm tip looked really huge, and didn't seem to put
>>the
>>amount of spin I wanted on the cue ball with snooker, so I went to a 10mm
>>tip and like it very much. A 9mm just 'looked' too small. Try a few
>>different club cues with different sizes, pick the best one for you, and
>>put
>>that one on your personal cue.
>>CW
>><sincerely>; "sam" <sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>news:159442739.0000280a.060.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
>>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>>> size tips
>>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or
>>> thought
>>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>>> telling).
>>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>>>
>>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches).
>>> Some
>>> go all
>>> the way down to 12mm.
>>>
>>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking
>>> into
>>> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of
>>> the
>>> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and
>>> 11.5mm.
>>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>>> used in
>>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm
>>> tip on
>>> a 52.387mm ball.
>>>
>>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>>> 9.5mm
>>> tip,
>>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>>>
>>> I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to
>>> get
>>> their
>>> input also.
>>>
>>> TIA Sincerely, Sam
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072693 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 08:04 |
|
I don't know if anyone actually said anything about an earlier remark
regarding pool players hitting the ball hard.
It's not true.
Good players actually very rarely hit the balls hard as the chances of a
scratch are multiplied when one does so.
The 9-ball break is about the only time when a bit hit is really called for.
In One-Pocket, its never called for.
"Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote in message
news:4483c7e3$0$28207$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> This is the sort of discussion we've been missing in this group for quite
> a while.
> Good, isn't it?
>
> It'd be really interesting (no pun intended!-well only a little!) to find
> out what Steve Davies uses on his 9-ball and Snooker cues. Somebody out
> there would know, wouldn't they?
>
> Anyway, here's my $0.02 on the discussion since my last contribution.
> Quite right about the tip size really following from the shaft stiffness
> required to reduce squirt;
> BUT I just found out that by changing the taper of the shaft over the last
> 6" dramatically reduced squirt for my cue which used to have a 10mm tip
> but which now sports a 9mm. That followed advice from an ex-pro and a
> current UK pro.
> Also I can understand what you say about increasing tip size improving
> accuracy, Sam. With a larger tip you have a larger flat area near its
> centre. This means you can hit the cueball slightly off centre without
> imparting unintentional sidespin, thus improving accuracy for us mere
> mortals. Its really amazing how much more careful I need to be with my
> reduced tip size. But when I need side, I can get it without squirt.
> Incidentally, I once had a snooker/UK 8 ball cue with a 10mm tip made for
> me while in the Philippines. Whilst still there I tried playing 9 ball
> with it. Talk about squirt!!!!! It was terrible.
>
> I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
> anyone try them?
>
> Here's another idea;
> A dozen years ago I met Anthony Hamilton who used to chamfer the outside
> edge of the top of his ferrule at 30-45 degreees. This allowed the tip to
> spread around the ferrule without needing to mushroom and, he believed,
> allow more agressive spin of all kinds to be imparted. I suspect that's
> something just for the pros though.
>
> Martin.
>
> <Sincerely>; "Sam" <Sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:159474771.000158e5.049.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
>> Thank you CW. I have settled (for now) on an 11mm pro taper, but was
>> curious as
>> to whether I was sacrificing anything with the larger tip. I do not let
>> my tip
>> mushroom however, so I may be playing very close say a mushroomed 9.5 or
>> 10mm
>> standard snooker cue. :o) Sincerely, Sam
>>
>>
>> In article <udMgg.13692$S61.10245 [at] edtnps90>, CW says...
>>>
>>>Hi Sam,
>>>This is just my $.02 on the subject. I think you may be trying to be too
>>>analytical. It's all a matter of preference as to which tip and tip size
>>>you
>>>use IMHO. I found my 13mm tip looked really huge, and didn't seem to put
>>>the
>>>amount of spin I wanted on the cue ball with snooker, so I went to a 10mm
>>>tip and like it very much. A 9mm just 'looked' too small. Try a few
>>>different club cues with different sizes, pick the best one for you, and
>>>put
>>>that one on your personal cue.
>>>CW
>>><sincerely>; "sam" <sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>news:159442739.0000280a.060.0001 [at] drn.newsguy.com...
>>>> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what
>>>> size tips
>>>> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer
>>>> (or
>>>> thought
>>>> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for
>>>> telling).
>>>> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>>>>
>>>> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches).
>>>> Some
>>>> go all
>>>> the way down to 12mm.
>>>>
>>>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking
>>>> into
>>>> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of
>>>> the
>>>> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and
>>>> 11.5mm.
>>>> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips
>>>> used in
>>>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other
>>>> reason.
>>>>
>>>> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an
>>>> 11mm
>>>> tip on
>>>> a 52.387mm ball.
>>>>
>>>> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a
>>>> 9.5mm
>>>> tip,
>>>> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>>>>
>>>> I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to
>>>> get
>>>> their
>>>> input also.
>>>>
>>>> TIA Sincerely, Sam
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072694 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 08:59 |
|
I just tried to find again the new shafts Aramith are bringing out.
It was really hard to find, but I did it!
To save you all the bother,,,
http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=35
"Potblak"
> I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
> anyone try them?
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072695 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 09:39 |
|
"Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote in
news:4483c964$0$28194$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
> I don't know if anyone actually said anything about an earlier remark
> regarding pool players hitting the ball hard.
> It's not true.
> Good players actually very rarely hit the balls hard as the chances of
> a scratch are multiplied when one does so.
> The 9-ball break is about the only time when a bit hit is really
> called for. In One-Pocket, its never called for.
Quite. And any half-serious 9-ball player is going to have a dedicated
break cue anyway.
Alf Git.
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072696 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 09:43 |
|
"Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote in
news:4483c7e3$0$28207$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
> It'd be really interesting (no pun intended!-well only a little!) to
> find out what Steve Davies uses on his 9-ball and Snooker cues.
> Somebody out there would know, wouldn't they?
>
http://www.parris-cues.co.uk/home.html
Their 'Ambassador' cue, which has a 9mm tip, is apparently modelled on the
one they made for Steve Davis. He could be using something different by now
though.
Alf Git.
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072697 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 09:55 |
|
Potblak wrote:
> I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
> anyone try them?
I'd really like to see a link to that. I don't anything about shafts on
saluc.com.
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072698 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 10:14 |
|
See my immediate previous post!
"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149494127.212323.251200 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Potblak wrote:
>
>
>> I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
>> anyone try them?
>
> I'd really like to see a link to that. I don't anything about shafts on
> saluc.com.
>
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072699 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 10:26 |
|
G'day Alf! Its been a while.
As I understand it, Steve has two shafts for the one JP butt, both made from
Ash, but one is sized for 9-ball and the other for snooker.
This way, he always holds the same butt, and his extensions work with both
combinations.
"Alf Git" <mynymnospace [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97D911993B177mynymnospace [at] 140.99.99.130...
> "Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote in
> news:4483c7e3$0$28207$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
>
>> It'd be really interesting (no pun intended!-well only a little!) to
>> find out what Steve Davies uses on his 9-ball and Snooker cues.
>> Somebody out there would know, wouldn't they?
>>
>
>
> http://www.parris-cues.co.uk/home.html
>
> Their 'Ambassador' cue, which has a 9mm tip, is apparently modelled on the
> one they made for Steve Davis. He could be using something different by
> now
> though.
>
> Alf Git.
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072700 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 11:05 |
|
<Sincerely>; "Sam" <Sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote
>
> Dhakala, the cue is 19oz. I don't know what type it is, but it seems to
> have a
> lot of green, red, and blue-gray in it, as well as normal wood colors. It
> is
> unusual looking, but attractive. Bob Renis is well known (SoCal, he's
> from
> Vista, CA. He is 81 now and still making cues.) for the steering wheel
> grip. I
> have found that this grip helps me loosen up on MY grip because of the
> ribbed
> grip.
Mr Renis makes cues by dying birch and beech [mostly] strips, saturating
them with phenolic resin, laminating them, then turning them down on a
lathe. It's similar to the WEST system used for boat building, and one thing
that can be said for it is that it's strong as hell. He makes shafts the
same way, and I would expect them to be relatively heavy and quite
"squirty", though I've never done more than hit a couple of balls with one
of his cues, so I don't really know. I do know that, unlike some cue makers,
he has no problem at all with making thin (e.g., 10mm) shafts with whatever
taper you want. I personally don't care for the ridged, thin butts;
actually, all standard modern pool cue butts are thinner than I like,but his
are even thinner than normal. I do like some of the colors and patterns he
achieves. It's interesting that he produces such thin butts, as he is
primarily a three-cushion player, I believe. I was referred to him when I
was trying to learn something about the carom games, and I found him very
pleasant to talk to, and very gracious in inviting me to his house for an
introduction to carom billiards. Unfortunately, about that time my wife
decided I was retiring and leaving San Diego and I didn't have time to take
him up on his offer. Anyway, pictures of his cues are available here:
http://www.westcoastcues.com/bobcues/.
Regarding tip width, I've been using a 10mm conical taper shaft for a couple
of years now and like it quite a lot. This is on a custom cue made by Ron
Kilby (http://www.caromcues.com/). Squirt is very low, and anything else now
feels very clumsy and inexact in hitting the cue ball.
-- jwp
|
|
|
| Aramith low deflection shaft [message #1072709 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 14:13 |
|
Huh. That link should appear on the dropdown menu "New Products," but
it doesn't. "Soon available in retail stores." I guess you stumbled
upon a trade secret! :-)
And before anyone asks, here it is again:
http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=35
"Based upon the Acuerate technology...: and here is Acuerate, a snooker
cue maker:
http://acuerate.com/main.php?rub=ab&tit=About%20Acuerate &lang=en
Chris Henry, inventor, had his shaft tested on Meucci's and Predator's
robots against their own shafts. See photo & text at bottom of this
page:
http://tinyurl.com/l9kee
The Acuerate shaft had virtually zero deflection. Hm. Where'd I put the
salt?
Potblak wrote:
> See my immediate previous post!
>
> "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149494127.212323.251200 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Potblak wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I see on the Aramith website they are marketing "squirt-free" shafts. Did
> >> anyone try them?
> >
> > I'd really like to see a link to that. I don't anything about shafts on
> > saluc.com.
> >
|
|
|
| Re: snooker tips [message #1072711 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 14:48 |
|
Hi John, I did take the trip to Bob's home, and yes, he is a 3 cushion player
and quite a story teller. He will sit down with you and tell you about the old
days for hours. Whereas Hal Houle will tell you all about Ralph Greenleaf, Bob
has another old time player he loves to talk about. I forget his name at the
moment, but the player died very young, about 36. He has pictures and newspaper
articles on the walls about this fellow. Yes, he mention Gleason also. I can't
feel or see any squirt in the stick, but then again, I'm no expert. I am making
8 and 10 foot shots, so you would think it would show up. Thanks for your
input. :o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <NtSgg.15480$0v4.14781 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com>, John W. Pierce says...
>
><Sincerely>; "Sam" <Sincerely_member [at] newsguy.com> wrote
>>
>> Dhakala, the cue is 19oz. I don't know what type it is, but it seems to
>> have a
>> lot of green, red, and blue-gray in it, as well as normal wood colors. It
>> is
>> unusual looking, but attractive. Bob Renis is well known (SoCal, he's
>> from
>> Vista, CA. He is 81 now and still making cues.) for the steering wheel
>> grip. I
>> have found that this grip helps me loosen up on MY grip because of the
>> ribbed
>> grip.
>
>Mr Renis makes cues by dying birch and beech [mostly] strips, saturating
>them with phenolic resin, laminating them, then turning them down on a
>lathe. It's similar to the WEST system used for boat building, and one thing
>that can be said for it is that it's strong as hell. He makes shafts the
>same way, and I would expect them to be relatively heavy and quite
>"squirty", though I've never done more than hit a couple of balls with one
>of his cues, so I don't really know. I do know that, unlike some cue makers,
>he has no problem at all with making thin (e.g., 10mm) shafts with whatever
>taper you want. I personally don't care for the ridged, thin butts;
>actually, all standard modern pool cue butts are thinner than I like,but his
>are even thinner than normal. I do like some of the colors and patterns he
>achieves. It's interesting that he produces such thin butts, as he is
>primarily a three-cushion player, I believe. I was referred to him when I
>was trying to learn something about the carom games, and I found him very
>pleasant to talk to, and very gracious in inviting me to his house for an
>introduction to carom billiards. Unfortunately, about that time my wife
>decided I was retiring and leaving San Diego and I didn't have time to take
>him up on his offer. Anyway, pictures of his cues are available here:
>http://www.westcoastcues.com/bobcues/.
>
>Regarding tip width, I've been using a 10mm conical taper shaft for a couple
>of years now and like it quite a lot. This is on a custom cue made by Ron
>Kilby (http://www.caromcues.com/). Squirt is very low, and anything else now
>feels very clumsy and inexact in hitting the cue ball.
>
>-- jwp
>
>
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072715 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 15:46 |
|
Alf Git wrote:
> "Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote in
> news:4483c964$0$28194$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
> > I don't know if anyone actually said anything about an earlier remark
> > regarding pool players hitting the ball hard.
> > It's not true.
It is on this side of the pond, fortunately for my off-books income..
:-)
> > Good players actually very rarely hit the balls hard as the chances of
> > a scratch are multiplied when one does so.
If you're a good enough player, the chance of a scratch is zero and so
its product of anything.
> > The 9-ball break is about the only time when a bit (big?) hit is really
> > called for.
Is UK 8-ball played with marshmallows, then?
> In One-Pocket, its never called for.
True.
> Quite. And any half-serious 9-ball player is going to have a dedicated
> break cue anyway.
Such a person would be a half-silly 9-ball player. We fully serious
ones need only one cue.
David Hakala
The Zen Cueist
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| Re: Aramith low deflection shaft [message #1072718 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 16:37 |
|
In article <1149509631.187476.257000 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
"Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/l9kee
>
> The Acuerate shaft had virtually zero deflection. Hm. Where'd I put the
> salt?
Maybe the photo is upside down, or maybe the text is wrong, but they
seem to be observing "deflection" to the right when using right
sidespin. I wonder if they are really measuring swerve?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
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| Re: Aramith low deflection shaft [message #1072720 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 16:55 |
|
Ron Shepard wrote:
> In article <1149509631.187476.257000 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
> "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/l9kee
> >
> > The Acuerate shaft had virtually zero deflection. Hm. Where'd I put the
> > salt?
>
> Maybe the photo is upside down, or maybe the text is wrong, but they
> seem to be observing "deflection" to the right when using right
> sidespin. I wonder if they are really measuring swerve?
Nice catch, Ron! " The robot was set up to apply 1cm of right hand
side spin aiming the cue ball to hit the centre of the object ball."
In the videos I've seen on Meucci's "Myth Destroyer" pages, they always
applied left English and the cue ball deflected to the right of the
target. I think Mr. Henry got confused.
As I understand things, the Meucci and Predator machines measure the
net effect of squirt and swerve for a given tip offset, cue ball travel
distance, and force applied to the cue ball. Force isn't specified in
this Acuerate test. We don't even know the distance because Mr. Henry
didn't specify the table's length:
"The cue ball was placed on the break off spot down the middle of the
table used for 8 ball and the object ball on the opposite corresponding
spot further down the table used to spot the 8 ball."
I still don't buy zero deflection as indicated by that photo.
Theoretically, it would happen at exactly one point on the cue ball's
path. But that's not at all the same as claiming that the cue ball goes
"straight down the middle of the table. "
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072724 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 17:22 |
|
In article
<44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
"Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote:
> Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
> flawed.
>
> If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
> found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
>
> Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
And how does the typical 3C tip fit in with this theory?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072726 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 17:52 |
|
sincerely wrote:
> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some go all
> the way down to 12mm.
>
> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips used in
> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other reason.
>
> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm tip on
> a 52.387mm ball.
>
Sam, I think your post starts off with an erroneous conclusion,
therefore the rest of the theory falls short. You have to first ask
yourself why pool cue have a larger diameter, not why snooker tips are
smaller. Big difference in questions, considering the history.
There may be several answers, but consider that snooker/english
billiards and billiards have been around longer than the current
version of American pool cues. Both use smaller tips than American
pool. So, ball diameter really has little do with it since snooker
balls are smaller, and billiard balls are bigger. Russian Pyramids also
have even bigger balls, and use similar sized tipped cues as the other
European games.
The American pool cue has undergone various changes made from various
cuemakers. When Herman Rambow developed the "pro taper", the delayed
growth was longer reportedly to accomodate the closed looop over bridge
amoung other things. The consequence of the delayed growth would make
the shaft substantially "whippier." If the tip remained the traditional
11mm or below, the shaft would have been tremendously whippy for most
players. To increase the spine (strength lateral to the axis), yet keep
the delayed taper, the tip had to get bigger.
Fast forward to Meucci, who went to an even more extreme delayed taper.
His shafts start at 13.1 - 13.2 for the same reason.
So, if you're going to find the "optimum diameter," for snooker play, I
think you need to look at the taper of your cue. Since I assume you're
using a snooker cue with a snooker taper, you're going to be limited to
the smaller range of tip diameters. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
Fred
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072727 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 17:53 |
|
Ron Shepard wrote:
> In article
> <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote:
>
> > Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter is
> > flawed.
> >
> > If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1 is
> > found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
> >
> > Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
>
> And how does the typical 3C tip fit in with this theory?
I don't even understand the theory. WTF does ball diameter or weight
have to do with tip diameter?
|
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072759 ] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 21:37 |
|
Fred, thanks for your input. I no longer use a standard snooker taper cue (not
that I mind it) because I ran into Bob Renis who makes pro taper 11mm cues out
of diamondwood (which is extremely hard and prevents whipping). I am very
pleased with the thinner shaft going through my open bridge (I have small
hands). My question was really, "am I loosing any draw, spin, or force follow,
by using the larger tip on the smaller ball"? I guess the answer THERE is, IT
DEPENDS ON YOUR CUEING ABILITY AND QUALITY OF STROKE. Am I right, or is their
additional draw, spin or force follow available based on the tip size? Just
wondering. :o) Sincerely, Sam
In article <1149522748.005874.245160 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Cornerman
says...
>
>
>sincerely wrote:
>
>>Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some go all
>> the way down to 12mm.
>>
>> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
>> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
>> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
>>Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips used in
>> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other reason.
>>
>>A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm tip on
>> a 52.387mm ball.
>>
>
>Sam, I think your post starts off with an erroneous conclusion,
>therefore the rest of the theory falls short. You have to first ask
>yourself why pool cue have a larger diameter, not why snooker tips are
>smaller. Big difference in questions, considering the history.
>
>There may be several answers, but consider that snooker/english
>billiards and billiards have been around longer than the current
>version of American pool cues. Both use smaller tips than American
>pool. So, ball diameter really has little do with it since snooker
>balls are smaller, and billiard balls are bigger. Russian Pyramids also
>have even bigger balls, and use similar sized tipped cues as the other
>European games.
>
>The American pool cue has undergone various changes made from various
>cuemakers. When Herman Rambow developed the "pro taper", the delayed
>growth was longer reportedly to accomodate the closed looop over bridge
>amoung other things. The consequence of the delayed growth would make
>the shaft substantially "whippier." If the tip remained the traditional
>11mm or below, the shaft would have been tremendously whippy for most
>players. To increase the spine (strength lateral to the axis), yet keep
>the delayed taper, the tip had to get bigger.
>
>Fast forward to Meucci, who went to an even more extreme delayed taper.
>His shafts start at 13.1 - 13.2 for the same reason.
>
>So, if you're going to find the "optimum diameter," for snooker play, I
>think you need to look at the taper of your cue. Since I assume you're
>using a snooker cue with a snooker taper, you're going to be limited to
>the smaller range of tip diameters. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
>
>Fred
>
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| Re: Aramith low deflection shaft [message #1072779 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 02:52 |
|
I wondered if you would pop up in this debate, Ron!
"Ron Shepard" <ron-shepard [at] NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-FCC64E.09375505062006 [at] comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <1149509631.187476.257000 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
> "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/l9kee
>>
>> The Acuerate shaft had virtually zero deflection. Hm. Where'd I put the
>> salt?
>
> Maybe the photo is upside down, or maybe the text is wrong, but they
> seem to be observing "deflection" to the right when using right
> sidespin. I wonder if they are really measuring swerve?
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
|
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072780 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 03:54 |
|
Translation required, please Ron!
WTH is a 3C?
"Ron Shepard" <ron-shepard [at] NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-C25433.10220105062006 [at] comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article
> <44835af9$0$28186$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> Using the diameters of the balls to determine the required tip diameter
>> is
>> flawed.
>>
>> If one considers the WEIGHT of the balls a more realistic ratio of 1.3:1
>> is
>> found which tends to agree with what is generally found in practice.
>>
>> Using that ratio, 12mm 9-Ball cue translates to about 9mm for Snooker.
>
> And how does the typical 3C tip fit in with this theory?
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072789 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 08:43 |
|
In article
<4484e03f$0$28198$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
"Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote:
> Translation required, please Ron!
> WTH is a 3C?
In three cushion billiards (3C), the balls are larger and heavier
than pool balls, yet the tips are typically smaller (10-11mm is
typical).
$.02 -Ron Shepard
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072790 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 09:58 |
|
Now you come to mention it you're right! Although I always thought the balls
were the same a 9-ball ones.
Didn't recognize 3C, I always know it as Carom, but yes, I've seen it played
with something very similar to snooker cues.
I think it just goes to show how really good those guys are.
"Ron Shepard" <ron-shepard [at] NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-502E07.01433906062006 [at] comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article
> <4484e03f$0$28198$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "Potblak" <Invalid [at] Invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> Translation required, please Ron!
>> WTH is a 3C?
>
> In three cushion billiards (3C), the balls are larger and heavier
> than pool balls, yet the tips are typically smaller (10-11mm is
> typical).
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072794 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 13:24 |
|
Sam,
I wish you a belated “welcome back”. I have not had much time for
lurking, but see you have been here for a few months. Other than being
busy, hope all is fine at your end. How is John’s work with the table
set up lasting? It sounds like your game is only one ball away from
reaching runs in the 70's.
I think that years ago snooker players started off using billiard cues
and through their tinkering we have arrived at the sizes we see today.
When I was younger it was common to tinker with our cue shafts. This
almost always consisted of sanding the shaft. I did a lot of traveling
back then and without exception, all the better snooker players had
liberally sanded their shafts. My way of thinking is that better players
have always tinkered with their cues. Perhaps years ago, in a quest for
better playing cues, through sanding, they inadvertently stumbled onto
the fact that the lighter the cue near the tip, the better it will play.
I have a collection of antique snooker cues all have significantly
bigger tips than my 9.5 mm cue. I do not think they give a true
indication of the cues used at the time. With the writing on the ivory
butt badges still intact, they have not seen the wear they would have,
if used by a serious player.
Seeing as I do play snooker I might be able to give some insight into
why “I” let my tip mushroom a bit. I have often heard the argument of
more tip contact, being the reasoning to this practice. To support this
argument it has been stated that a larger tip diameter would also bring
a larger shaft and thus increasing the weight at the business end of the
cue.
I think that letting your tip mushroom has a lot to do with the
attitude, if its working (you like the feel) don’t screw with it. When
it feels right, I think that they do not want to sacrifice that feel by
sanding the tip overhang. With a lathe in my basement, I don’t think
that anyone had a more meticulous tip than I did in the past. Over the
last few years I have stopped this habit completely.
If the tip overhang is not too great, I do not even notice it anymore.
Before, the littlest change in the shape was noticed, usually as I was
down on my shot. My attention to my tip, at times caused distraction
during the shot. Now I do not even see these past imperfections because
the edge is not perfect. My tip condition can no longer disrupt my
concentration.
I can remember hearing that Davis uses an 11mm tip to play pool.
Mike
sincerely wrote:
> Okay, let's try this a different way. I asked the question about what size tips
> PROs and club players use as a norm, and no one here knew the answer (or thought
> it was so top secret that they would be barred from their club for telling).
> Anyway, there is a reason for my question.
>
> Pool players TEND to use 13mm tips on 57.15mm balls (2 1/4 inches). Some go all
> the way down to 12mm.
>
> In order to keep the ratio of tip surface to ball surface (not taking into
> account tip shape, mushrooming, and possibly the sharper curvature of the
> smaller ball) snooker players would have to use tips between 11mm and 11.5mm.
> Since I know that this is not true, what ACCOUNTS for the smaller tips used in
> snooker? Sharper curvature of the smaller ball? I can find no other reason.
>
> A 12mm tip on a 57.15mm ball is almost exactly the same ratio as an 11mm tip on
> a 52.387mm ball.
>
> For a pool player to have the same ratio as a snooker player using a 9.5mm tip,
> a pool player would have to be using a 10.35mm tip on his pool balls.
>
> I am going to try and cross-post this thread to rec.sport.billiard to get their
> input also.
>
> TIA Sincerely, Sam
>
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072795 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 15:30 |
|
Sincerely wrote:
> My question was really, "am I loosing any draw, spin, or force follow,
> by using the larger tip on the smaller ball"?
The answer is no. Today's professional snooker players, many of them
have a tip diameter larger than their ferrule. They often have
overhanging tips. It would seem nutz. Byt the same token, many do not
have over-sized tips.
If you started with a 9.7mm, shouldn't you have tried a pro taper 9.7mm
in Dymondwood?
And just for curiosity sake, how long is your snooker cue?
Fred
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| Re: snooker tips [message #1072829 ] |
Tue, 06 June 2006 20:42 |
|
Fred, I did try a 9.7 Diamondwood with a pro taper first. It feels like a
pencil sliding through your fingers. 11mm was the smallest that felt good. My
stick is 58" rather than the quote quote normal 57". Thanks for asking. :o)
Sincerely, Sam
In article <1149600659.269173.133520 [at] f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Cornerman
says...
>
>
>Sincerely wrote:
>> My question was really, "am I loosing any draw, spin, or force follow,
>> by using the larger tip on the smaller ball"?
>
>The answer is no. Today's professional snooker players, many of them
>have a tip diameter larger than their ferrule. They often have
>overhanging tips. It would seem nutz. Byt the same token, many do not
>have over-sized tips.
>
>If you started with a 9.7mm, shouldn't you have tried a pro taper 9.7mm
>in Dymondwood?
>
>And just for curiosity sake, how long is your snooker cue?
>
>Fred
>
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