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Sports » rec.sport.rugby.union » Witless
| Witless [message #1071464] |
Sun, 11 June 2006 13:05 |
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Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
or a knock on/
The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly against
the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
England suffering badly from a lack of penetration across the gain line.
Best player for the Poms - Catt, easily.
Best player for the convicts - either Vickerman or Mortlock.
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| Re: Witless [message #1071497 ] |
Sun, 11 June 2006 15:19 |
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In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
> beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
if he doesn't have the pace.
>
> This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
> or a knock on/
I had more trouble with him around the breakdown - way too much slowed
down ball.
>
> The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly against
> the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
I think on a dryer ground the difference would have been even more
marked. Must still be a real concern for the Wallabies, though. How the
ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
though, is beyond me.
>
> England suffering badly from a lack of penetration across the gain line.
Absolutely. Looked promising early on, but ran out of ideas, and then
strength against some superb physical Australian defence. I thought
England's blitz defence worked well in the first half, but seemed to
disappear in the second.
>
> Best player for the Poms - Catt, easily.
Maybe, I thought Sanderson showed quite well, especially of the base of
the scrum.
>
> Best player for the convicts - either Vickerman or Mortlock.
Smith, too, was a constant thorn in the English side all game long. His
usual combative best.
All in all, a very good second half from Australia. I don't know what
England try to do by next weekend - acquiring tens years per man of
international experience by then is not an option.
William Clark
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| Re: Witless [message #1071511 ] |
Sun, 11 June 2006 19:42 |
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William A. T. Clark wrote:
> In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
>
>> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run
>> and beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
>
> Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally.
> What is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in
> every chance he gets, like Tiquiri does?
Varndell showed that in the Commonwealth sevens; many occasions had him
taking possession on a partial overlap and most times he didn't even attempt
to gas his man. Most frustrating to see a guy with his pace but some problem
with self-belief or whatever.
[...]
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
Supps: http://www.myprotein.co.uk - 5% off with my discount code MP4858
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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| Re: Witless [message #1071520 ] |
Sun, 11 June 2006 22:58 |
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In article <4f330aF1flo9hU1 [at] individual.net>,
"Bully" <neil_simpson [at] spam-me-not_btinternet.com> wrote:
> William A. T. Clark wrote:
> > In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> > JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run
> >> and beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
> >
> > Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally.
> > What is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in
> > every chance he gets, like Tiquiri does?
>
> Varndell showed that in the Commonwealth sevens; many occasions had him
> taking possession on a partial overlap and most times he didn't even attempt
> to gas his man. Most frustrating to see a guy with his pace but some problem
> with self-belief or whatever.
>
> [...]
Yes, my take exactly.
William Clark
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| Re: Witless [message #1071533 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 00:25 |
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"William A. T. Clark" <clark.31 [at] osu.edu> wrote in message
news:clark.31-57849C.09195211062006 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
>
>> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
>> beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
>
> Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
> is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
> chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
> if he doesn't have the pace.
>>
>> This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
>> or a knock on/
>
> I had more trouble with him around the breakdown - way too much slowed
> down ball.
>
>>
>> The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly against
>> the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
>
> I think on a dryer ground the difference would have been even more
> marked. Must still be a real concern for the Wallabies, though. How the
> ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
> though, is beyond me.
Easy White caused the scrum to collapse by not binding properly. Did he just
miss the correct bind? probably, did he do it deliberately ? maybe or was he
outmanoeuvred? unlikely.
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| Re: Witless [message #1071547 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 02:01 |
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"William A. T. Clark" <clark.31 [at] osu.edu> wrote in message
news:clark.31-57849C.09195211062006 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
>
>> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
>> beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
>
> Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
> is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
> chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
> if he doesn't have the pace.
>>
>> This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
>> or a knock on/
>
> I had more trouble with him around the breakdown - way too much slowed
> down ball.
>
>>
>> The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly against
>> the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
>
> I think on a dryer ground the difference would have been even more
> marked. Must still be a real concern for the Wallabies, though. How the
> ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
>
The ref got it right and the look on Whites face showed that the ref was
spot on when he said White was going for a penalty
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| Re: Witless [message #1071563 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 04:22 |
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In article
<448c9865$0$26249$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
"dechucka" <dechucka [at] vomithotmail.com.au> wrote:
> "William A. T. Clark" <clark.31 [at] osu.edu> wrote in message
> news:clark.31-57849C.09195211062006 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> > In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> > JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
> >> beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
> >
> > Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
> > is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
> > chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
> > if he doesn't have the pace.
> >>
> >> This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
> >> or a knock on/
> >
> > I had more trouble with him around the breakdown - way too much slowed
> > down ball.
> >
> >>
> >> The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly against
> >> the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
> >
> > I think on a dryer ground the difference would have been even more
> > marked. Must still be a real concern for the Wallabies, though. How the
> > ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
> > though, is beyond me.
>
>
> Easy White caused the scrum to collapse by not binding properly. Did he just
> miss the correct bind? probably, did he do it deliberately ? maybe or was he
> outmanoeuvred? unlikely.
Really? You don't bind properly on your own put in for what reason? Pray
enlighten us.
William Clark
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| Re: Witless [message #1071567 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 05:04 |
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"William A. T. Clark" <clark.31 [at] osu.edu> wrote in message
news:clark.31-90708F.22224711062006 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> In article
> <448c9865$0$26249$5a62ac22 [at] per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,
> "dechucka" <dechucka [at] vomithotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "William A. T. Clark" <clark.31 [at] osu.edu> wrote in message
>> news:clark.31-57849C.09195211062006 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
>> > In article <7OSig.7412$ap3.3378 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>> > JD <_antipodean_ [at] ubique.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Varndell - useless. No doubt people will crap on about his one run and
>> >> beating Tuqiri, but as the great black hope - WOFTAM so far.
>> >
>> > Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally.
>> > What
>> > is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
>> > chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
>> > if he doesn't have the pace.
>> >>
>> >> This Irish git of a ref - does he know what constitutes a forward pass
>> >> or a knock on/
>> >
>> > I had more trouble with him around the breakdown - way too much slowed
>> > down ball.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> The Wallabies front row. Lack of experience being shown up badly
>> >> against
>> >> the skills and knowledge of their English counterparts.
>> >
>> > I think on a dryer ground the difference would have been even more
>> > marked. Must still be a real concern for the Wallabies, though. How the
>> > ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
>> > though, is beyond me.
>>
>>
>> Easy White caused the scrum to collapse by not binding properly. Did he
>> just
>> miss the correct bind? probably, did he do it deliberately ? maybe or was
>> he
>> outmanoeuvred? unlikely.
>
> Really? You don't bind properly on your own put in for what reason? Pray
> enlighten us.
>
> William Clark
because he missed the bind at the engagement, he was trying to play silly
buggers or he was outmanoeuvred at the engagement. Out of the 3 scenarios
no. 1 is most likely IMHO
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| Re: Witless [message #1071600 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 11:55 |
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William A. T. Clark wrote:
How the
>>>ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
>>>though, is beyond me.
>>
>>
>>Easy White caused the scrum to collapse by not binding properly. Did he just
>>miss the correct bind? probably, did he do it deliberately ? maybe or was he
>>outmanoeuvred? unlikely.
>
>
> Really? You don't bind properly on your own put in for what reason? Pray
> enlighten us.
I see you're not debating whether on not he bound as he was required to
do so by the laws.
The reason for not binding is open to debate, but doesn't change the
fact that he didn't and the penalty was justified.
Later,
Sean
>
> William Clark
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| Re: Witless [message #1071610 ] |
Mon, 12 June 2006 12:32 |
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Sean Byrne wrote:
> William A. T. Clark wrote:
> How the
> >>>ref gave a penalty against White for taking down on England's put-in,
> >>>though, is beyond me.
> >>
> >>
> >>Easy White caused the scrum to collapse by not binding properly. Did he just
> >>miss the correct bind? probably, did he do it deliberately ? maybe or was he
> >>outmanoeuvred? unlikely.
> >
> >
> > Really? You don't bind properly on your own put in for what reason? Pray
> > enlighten us.
>
> I see you're not debating whether on not he bound as he was required to
> do so by the laws.
>
> The reason for not binding is open to debate, but doesn't change the
> fact that he didn't and the penalty was justified.
>
> Later,
> Sean
I'm not sure I would have penalised (rather than just a reset) but it
did look like he was at fault.
His body position on the engage just looked a bit wrong. Only saw it
once though (as part of Sky's spastic highlights package - why the hell
can't they replay the full game?)
Cheers
Brent
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| Re: Witless [message #1071703 ] |
Tue, 13 June 2006 01:29 |
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> Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
> is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
> chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
> if he doesn't have the pace.
What happenend to Cueto recently? Is he injured or just completely out
of form? He was the darling finisher of the English team and now he is
nowhere to be seen.
> Best player for the Poms - Catt, easily.
Yeah but no good for the future. Would have thought with all his
experience and recent form he would have taken a more commanding role
in organising the back line. It was touted on RSRU and various broad
sheets that this was to be his role in the team. 'Teach the new guys'.
Didnt seem to have a lot of luck in that department.
> Maybe, I thought Sanderson showed quite well, especially of the base of
> the scrum.
Didnt break the advantage line enough and got turned over far too much.
Why cant ball carriers these days go to ground with the ball and hold
it in a tackle? Not just Sanderson but creeped into rugby at all
levels. All trying to pop the impossible pass and end up giving it
away.
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| Re: Witless [message #1071704 ] |
Tue, 13 June 2006 02:13 |
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In article <1150154988.375617.237290 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Craig L" <thenzbigguy [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Agreed, looked completely out of his depth physically and mentally. What
> > is the point having a winger if he won't take the opposition in every
> > chance he gets, like Tiquiri does? Cueto would be more effective, even
> > if he doesn't have the pace.
>
> What happenend to Cueto recently? Is he injured or just completely out
> of form? He was the darling finisher of the English team and now he is
> nowhere to be seen.
I don't know if he was "rested" for this tour or not, but I rather think
so. He had a couple of pretty horrible games for Sale recently, but
still looks better than either of those two out on the park on Saturday.
>
>
> > Best player for the Poms - Catt, easily.
>
> Yeah but no good for the future. Would have thought with all his
> experience and recent form he would have taken a more commanding role
> in organising the back line. It was touted on RSRU and various broad
> sheets that this was to be his role in the team. 'Teach the new guys'.
> Didnt seem to have a lot of luck in that department.
Yes, seems odd to me that Barkley has been playing IC all season, so
they put him at fly half - against Australia! Most of the other new
backs were pulled off early, before we could really see what they can do
late in a game. We all saw what the Oz backs could do in the last ten
minutes.
>
>
>
> > Maybe, I thought Sanderson showed quite well, especially of the base of
> > the scrum.
>
> Didnt break the advantage line enough and got turned over far too much.
> Why cant ball carriers these days go to ground with the ball and hold
> it in a tackle? Not just Sanderson but creeped into rugby at all
> levels. All trying to pop the impossible pass and end up giving it
> away.
Yes, and made a bad choice throwing that long loop pass when he made his
break, rather than giving it to Voyce to have a go. Where are England
going to find a real No. 8?
William Clark
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| Re: Witless [message #1071792 ] |
Tue, 13 June 2006 12:26 |
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> Yes, and made a bad choice throwing that long loop pass when he made his
> break, rather than giving it to Voyce to have a go. Where are England
> going to find a real No. 8?
>
Tonga?
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