| pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035321] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 01:33 |
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Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035330 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 02:05 |
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"Søren Jacobsen" <kurgan [at] spammergoaway_kurgan.dk> wrote in message
news:49365$447a3347$55daa1ea$30474 [at] news.galnet.dk...
> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>
> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not to
> remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>
> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>
>
Agreed that Pernice should have seen that he moved the ball but I believe
him when he says he didn't. Good that it wasn't a penalty as the ball
returned to its original position (I guess).
Do you think it's the increased money involved (at least for the pros)?? So
much pressure to be in the top 125 (is that the number?).
My daughter played in college and she (and her teammates) would call a
penalty on herself in a heartbeat ... Dad must have brought her up right!
Made me proud a couple of times ... there's still hope.
Bob
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035331 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 02:09 |
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S=F8ren Jacobsen wrote:
> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize=
=20
> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>=20
> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not=
=20
> to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>=20
> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>=20
>=20
he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it=20
moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I=20
believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo=20
told him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed=20
to do?
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035335 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 02:33 |
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long&left wrote:
> Søren Jacobsen wrote:
>> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont
>> penalize themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>>
>> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed
>> not to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>>
>> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>>
>>
>
> he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it
> moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I
> believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo
> told him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed
> to do?
It doesnt make sense, why confront him with the situation if they
allready decided there was no penalty?!
Seems like the officials thought there was a penalty, but didnt have the
.... to call it, so they hoped he'd admit to it himself...
Otherwise why disrupt his game, if they thought there was nothing?
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035339 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 03:12 |
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long&left wrote:
>
> he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it
> moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I
> believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo
> told him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed
> to do?
I didn't see this, but if the ball oscillates but does not move there is
no penalty.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035340 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 03:16 |
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I know the official made the final ruling that the ball didn't change
position, but as a player, if I were told that scenario and didn't know
the ball had moved/ocillated, I would assume the worse and remove all
doubt by taking the two stroke penalty.
Didn't matter much as Pernice was 2 clear for 2nd all alone, but still.
2nd all alone vs. 3 way tie for 2nd.
IMHO, the ball changed position because if he moved it without
subsequently moving the putter back, the ball couldn't have returned to
its original position.
Vijay and Pernice good friends.....and cheaters?!? :-)
long&left wrote:
> S=F8ren Jacobsen wrote:
> > Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
> > themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
> >
> > I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
> > to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
> >
> > Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
> >
> >
>
> he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it
> moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I
> believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo
> told him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed
> to do?
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035342 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 03:41 |
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newellsatwsu wrote:
> IMHO, the ball changed position because if he moved it without
> subsequently moving the putter back, the ball couldn't have returned to
> its original position.
VERY good point.
> Vijay and Pernice good friends.....and cheaters?!? :-)
LOL! But for real, I knew there had to be something behind Pernice's
call for driver testing aside from him getting out-driven. Usually
those most suspicious of others can't be trusted themselves, and he
successfully proved that today.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035348 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 04:20 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035350 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 04:21 |
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"Søren Jacobsen" <kurgan [at] spammergoaway_kurgan.dk> wrote ...
> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>
> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not to
> remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>
> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
On the surface, it does seem inconceivable how a player wouldn't notice
their putter moving the ball. Unless there was something going on that you
and I don't know about, which is certainly possible.
For example, it was hot as hell in Memphis today. He could have had a bead
of sweat run off his brow and into his eye. Maybe he closed his eye at just
that moment. That would explain BOTH how he might have flinched slightly
and ALLOWED his putter to move the ball AND not be aware that it happened.
I'm not saying that's what happened. Heck I don't know. I'm merely
offering a possible explanation to make the point that there could have been
a reason for why he didn't notice it happening that would not be readily
apparent to the rest of us.
Pernice is a pretty good guy, and has no record of stretching the rules that
I'm aware of. I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt that
he's being honest.
Besides, the ruling was that the ball moved, but then settled back into its
original spot. In which case, there's no penalty. Heck, the TOUR looked at
the replay enough times, they oughta know what happened.
In the end, it didn't matter anyway. Maggert slammed the door on 17.
Randy
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035352 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 04:22 |
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"Søren Jacobsen" <kurgan [at] spammergoaway_kurgan.dk> wrote in message
news:2698e$447a4174$55daa1ea$12475 [at] news.galnet.dk...
> long&left wrote:
>> Søren Jacobsen wrote:
>>> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
>>> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>>>
>>> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
>>> to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>>>
>>> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it
>> moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I
>> believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo
>> told him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed
>> to do?
>
>
> It doesnt make sense, why confront him with the situation if they allready
> decided there was no penalty?!
>
> Seems like the officials thought there was a penalty, but didnt have the
> ... to call it, so they hoped he'd admit to it himself...
>
> Otherwise why disrupt his game, if they thought there was nothing?
I had more or less the same reaction. If there's no penalty, then why
bother the guy?
To his credit, he didn't seem to let it bother him at all.
Pernice is pretty unflappable, though.
Randy
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035353 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 04:23 |
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"newellsatwsu" <newellatwsu [at] adelphia.net> wrote
>
> Vijay and Pernice good friends.....and cheaters?!? :-)
I've never heard anyone allege any such thing about Pernice.
Randy
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035360 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 05:04 |
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On 28 May 2006 18:41:10 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>newellsatwsu wrote:
>
>> IMHO, the ball changed position because if he moved it without
>> subsequently moving the putter back, the ball couldn't have returned to
>> its original position.
>
>VERY good point.
>
>> Vijay and Pernice good friends.....and cheaters?!? :-)
>
>LOL! But for real, I knew there had to be something behind Pernice's
>call for driver testing aside from him getting out-driven. Usually
>those most suspicious of others can't be trusted themselves, and he
>successfully proved that today.
I missed this driver testing issue. What's it all about?
Craig
"Nothing matters but the weekend, from a Tuesday point of view."
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035361 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 05:06 |
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On 28 May 2006 21:20:35 -0500, rvkint [at] gmail.com (R.V. Kint) wrote:
>But if the reports regarding DC are correct then he did NOT
>play according to the Rules.
>
>http://www.golfweek.com/ourtake/286155184081580.php
>
> That wasn't the situation that unfolded Monday morning. Clarke
> returned and found his ball in the same spot, only it wasn't in its
> original position, it was sitting up on top of the grass, leaving a
> clear shot to the green. Someone had moved the ball.
>
>If his ball was moved then he was required to replace it --
>Rule 6-8d.
Replace it where? I don't see any way to replace it to the letter or
the rules, except by having the committee rule - and if he felt the
committee decision went against the spirit of the rule, he is free to
chip out.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035365 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 05:24 |
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zipper40hDIESPAMMERS [at] netscape.net wrote:
> On 28 May 2006 18:41:10 -0700, "Ben." <kombi45 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >newellsatwsu wrote:
> >
> >> IMHO, the ball changed position because if he moved it without
> >> subsequently moving the putter back, the ball couldn't have returned to
> >> its original position.
> >
> >VERY good point.
> >
> >> Vijay and Pernice good friends.....and cheaters?!? :-)
> >
> >LOL! But for real, I knew there had to be something behind Pernice's
> >call for driver testing aside from him getting out-driven. Usually
> >those most suspicious of others can't be trusted themselves, and he
> >successfully proved that today.
>
> I missed this driver testing issue. What's it all about?
>
> Craig
Last year he was _at home_ watching the Bay Hill and upon seeing Tiger
out drive Phil on a consistent basis, he called in and asked that
Tiger's driver be tested for COR compliance. It turned out to be
_under_ the legal limit. He's a dirtbag.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035367 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 05:34 |
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> Last year he was _at home_ watching the Bay Hill and upon seeing Tiger
> out drive Phil on a consistent basis, he called in and asked that
> Tiger's driver be tested for COR compliance. It turned out to be
> _under_ the legal limit. He's a dirtbag.
You're the last person that should be calling someone else a dirtbag.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035370 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 06:13 |
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Raskull wrote:
> > Last year he was _at home_ watching the Bay Hill and upon seeing Tiger
> > out drive Phil on a consistent basis, he called in and asked that
> > Tiger's driver be tested for COR compliance. It turned out to be
> > _under_ the legal limit. He's a dirtbag.
>
> You're the last person that should be calling someone else a dirtbag.
Sorry about that - he's a fucking hypocrite dirtbag. Mea culpa,
whoever you are.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035398 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 15:57 |
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>I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
>to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
Did Tiger call it in?
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035412 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 17:33 |
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This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
--0-1315045246-1148916834=:26596
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
On Mon, 29 May 2006, S=F8ren Jacobsen wrote:
> long&left wrote:
>> S=F8ren Jacobsen wrote:
>>> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize=
=20
>>> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>>>=20
>>> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not=
to=20
>>> remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>>>=20
>>> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>> he didn't say that he didn't *remember*, he said "I didn't know that it=
=20
>> moved". He was looking at the hole when his putter hit the ball so I=20
>> believe him. Then, the rules official that had seen the tape in slo-mo t=
old=20
>> him that the ball didn't move, only oscillated. What's he supposed to do=
?
>
>
> It doesnt make sense, why confront him with the situation if they allread=
y=20
> decided there was no penalty?!
>
> Seems like the officials thought there was a penalty, but didnt have the =
=2E..=20
> to call it, so they hoped he'd admit to it himself...
>
> Otherwise why disrupt his game, if they thought there was nothing?
Totally messedd up thing to do on the rules official's part. If there
was no penalty you shouldn't bother the guy.
I find it hard to beleive that he didn't feel it move. Everytime that happ=
ens
to me I sure know it. Double hits on sandwedges too.
I thought only guys with the yips like me did that. Shows why you
don't see TP up at the top of the leader board often these days.
--0-1315045246-1148916834=:26596--
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035433 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 20:48 |
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""R&B"" <noneofyourbusiness [at] all.com> wrote in message
news:p9KdneOpbfsHx-fZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> "Søren Jacobsen" <kurgan [at] spammergoaway_kurgan.dk> wrote ...
> > snip
> For example, it was hot as hell in Memphis today. He could have had a
bead
> of sweat run off his brow and into his eye. Maybe he closed his eye at
just
> that moment. That would explain BOTH how he might have flinched slightly
> and ALLOWED his putter to move the ball AND not be aware that it happened.
>
> I'm not saying that's what happened. Heck I don't know. I'm merely
> offering a possible explanation to make the point that there could have
been
> a reason for why he didn't notice it happening that would not be readily
> apparent to the rest of us.
>
> Pernice is a pretty good guy, and has no record of stretching the rules
that
> I'm aware of. I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt that
> he's being honest.
>
> Besides, the ruling was that the ball moved, but then settled back into
its
> original spot. In which case, there's no penalty. Heck, the TOUR looked
at
> the replay enough times, they oughta know what happened.
>
> In the end, it didn't matter anyway. Maggert slammed the door on 17.
>
> Randy
>
>
Randy, reasonable thinking and an open mind are qualities that are
categorically not welcome here on RSG :-)
dave
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035436 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 21:19 |
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annika1980 wrote:
>> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
>> to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>
> Did Tiger call it in?
>
LOL
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035445 ] |
Mon, 29 May 2006 23:20 |
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In article <1148911067.910732.3080 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
annika1980 [at] aol.com says...
>
>>I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
>>to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>
>Did Tiger call it in?
>
Kenny Perry ring a bell?
--
Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
"Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035449 ] |
Tue, 30 May 2006 00:13 |
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>I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
>to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
Pernice should be DQ'd.
Did you watch his reaction after he holed the putt? He stood back and
looked off into space, as if wondering what to do next. It was the
look of someone who had missed the putt and realized they just threw
away a bunch of money.
Then when Arvin Ginn, the PGA Tour official confronted him about it,
Pernice shrugged it off saying something to the effect of, "Maybe it
did, maybe it didn't. So penalize me if it moved."
First time I ever saw Pernice was in a local PGA Tour Monday qualifier.
He was in a playoff for the final spot. After tying the first two
holes they came to the par-3 3rd, and Pernice hit a chip shot that
finished about 2 feet away. His opponent made a simple par and Pernice
had the 2-footer to keep playing. Only problem was that there was a
huge spike mark directly on his line between him and the hole. It was
so big that I could see it from 50 yards away (thru my binoculars). To
his credit, he didn't try to tap down the spike mark. His ball banged
off of it and didn't even touch the cup, thus ending his chance that
week. Pernice went off on everybody involved with running that event,
saving his most poisonous venom for the host pro. You see, the
qualifier was being held at Pungent Municipal and the course was open
for normal play right after the last qualifying group went off. So by
the time the playoff happened, there had probably been 200+ rounds
played that day and the greens were beat all to hell like they usually
are. Pernice chastised the host pro for allowing play on the course
and for not going out ahead of the playoff and making sure the playing
conditions were perfect. The pro told him to go fuck himself and quit
cryin like a baby. Mikey and I must've laughed for 15 minutes.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035450 ] |
Tue, 30 May 2006 00:18 |
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>In the end, it didn't matter anyway.
John Cook and Kris Cox are holding on line 2.
It mattered about $173,333.33 to them.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035498 ] |
Tue, 30 May 2006 05:12 |
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I've touched the ball a couple of times when looking at the hole. I've
never touched it when I was looking at it by accident.
Søren Jacobsen <kurgan [at] spammergoaway_kurgan.dk> wrote in news:49365
$447a3347$55daa1ea$30474 [at] news.galnet.dk:
> Am I the only one that regrets that more and more players dont penalize
> themselves no more? (both amateur, and pro)
>
> I think the footage was rather convincing, and Pernice even claimed not
> to remember it? Hmmmm. how could he miss it?
>
> Its good theres still players like Darren Clarke.
>
>
--
" Location 75 miles north of New Orleans "
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035564 ] |
Tue, 30 May 2006 20:54 |
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I penalized myself for this just this weekend.
Cost me a skin against my dad and brother. Some of you know how much
that hurts.
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| Re: pernice moving ball at address... [message #1035649 ] |
Wed, 31 May 2006 02:45 |
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On 30 May 2006 05:12:03 -0700, "p4o2" <p4o2 [at] webtv.net> wrote:
>I think the "ball in play" rule should be changed. If you knock the
>ball off the tee, no problem, but "in play" one stroke for a tenth of a
>revolution (or less).
Why?
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