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Sports » rec.sport.golf » OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue
| OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034191] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 15:22 |
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About 715 this am, a guy knocks on my door. He is a Mexican gentleman
I assume, in his mid 50's, with his wife. He volunteers to mow my lawn
for $35. I never pay anyone to do my yardwork, I do itmyself, but my
lawn looks somewhat bad right now. My rider mower is down and I am
waiting for a replacement part. So, I take him up on it and he is done
in less than an hour. Beautiful job. I gave him the $35 plus a $15
tip. I offered him and his wife something to drink, we spoke for 5
minutes. He told me that he and his wife do this 7 days a week during
the warm months. They have regular customers and do door to door in
between. I was impressed! In the 8 years I have lived in my home, no
one has ever showed up like this.
Played golf with a builder friend yesterday. He told me that all his
framers are Latin, mostly Mexican with a few Guatemalans. He pays them
the same thing he would pay any local. He told me that for the first
time in years, he has a stable work force. They are on time, they work
7 days a week if needed. What really surprised me is that he told me
that he has to TELL them to take breaks. He worries that they
sometimes go to long without water or food.
My golf club is simply stunning these days. Who is doing all the work.
Latins, mostly Mexican. They are seldom seen sitting around doing
nothing, they are in constant actitivy
No doubt, the illegal issue is very distressing. Shame on the
employers for doing this and shame on the govt for no enforcement. The
implications on our health care system worrisome, as few have
insurance. But you have to give these folks credit. They have an
incredible work ethic. Everywhere you go these days where I live, it
is Latins. Whether it be roof work, road work, landscaping, whatever,
they are everywhere. Makes you wonder where we would be without them.
These are decent people for the most part. Sure they have their
rogues, what group doesn't. I am beginning to reconsider my stand on
this whole issue. Maybe ammnesty and some form of work permits is a
good idea. They seem to endorse the concept of hard work and
reliability. You talk to most employers, and they will relate total
frustration with the local help. Tardiness, frequent breaks, asking
for time off after two weeks on the job, complaining, etc. In many
cases, it seems, the premise that the Latins are stealing jobs from
Americans is very wrong. They are doing the work because employers,
even when paying competitive wages, cannot maintain a dedicated,
stable work force. I must say watching these folks, if I was an
employer I would hire them in a minute. They would make me successful.
And I would check their credientials and pay them market rate.
the Hammer
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034249 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 17:10 |
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The Hammer wrote:
> About 715 this am, a guy knocks on my door. He is a Mexican gentleman
> I assume, in his mid 50's, with his wife. He volunteers to mow my lawn
> for $35.
SNIP, SNIP, SNIP.
When some "Mexican gentleman" knocks on my door at 7:15 am, unless he
is the President of Mexico, with whom I'd like to speak, security is
called and these trespassers are escorted out of the area. Did you
check his license and insurance papers? Sure you looked at his workers
comp. Picture this guy hurting his back on your property, watch life
get very bad. I've seen it.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034253 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:25 |
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My wife's side of the family came from Mexico. One of her cousins graduated
from law school. Another has a Phd in education. Another is in culinary
school with the help of the GI bill after doing a tour in the Marines, not
middle east. All most all have graduated from college or technical school
and not one of them is unemployed, that I know of.
Hammer, you work in a hospital, right? When my mother was ill, befor her
passing last year, it was the Phillipinos and Mexicans that were there for
her, mostly, with some important exceptions. I wonder who is going to take
care of the baby boomers when we get to a little older, in nursing homes and
as visiting nurses, if not the Mexican 'illegals'.
"The Hammer" <buggertt [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148476944.644403.284280 [at] j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> About 715 this am, a guy knocks on my door. He is a Mexican gentleman
> I assume, in his mid 50's, with his wife. He volunteers to mow my lawn
> for $35. I never pay anyone to do my yardwork, I do itmyself, but my
> lawn looks somewhat bad right now. My rider mower is down and I am
> waiting for a replacement part. So, I take him up on it and he is done
> in less than an hour. Beautiful job. I gave him the $35 plus a $15
> tip. I offered him and his wife something to drink, we spoke for 5
> minutes. He told me that he and his wife do this 7 days a week during
> the warm months. They have regular customers and do door to door in
> between. I was impressed! In the 8 years I have lived in my home, no
> one has ever showed up like this.
>
> Played golf with a builder friend yesterday. He told me that all his
> framers are Latin, mostly Mexican with a few Guatemalans. He pays them
> the same thing he would pay any local. He told me that for the first
> time in years, he has a stable work force. They are on time, they work
> 7 days a week if needed. What really surprised me is that he told me
> that he has to TELL them to take breaks. He worries that they
> sometimes go to long without water or food.
>
> My golf club is simply stunning these days. Who is doing all the work.
> Latins, mostly Mexican. They are seldom seen sitting around doing
> nothing, they are in constant actitivy
>
> No doubt, the illegal issue is very distressing. Shame on the
> employers for doing this and shame on the govt for no enforcement. The
> implications on our health care system worrisome, as few have
> insurance. But you have to give these folks credit. They have an
> incredible work ethic. Everywhere you go these days where I live, it
> is Latins. Whether it be roof work, road work, landscaping, whatever,
> they are everywhere. Makes you wonder where we would be without them.
>
>
> These are decent people for the most part. Sure they have their
> rogues, what group doesn't. I am beginning to reconsider my stand on
> this whole issue. Maybe ammnesty and some form of work permits is a
> good idea. They seem to endorse the concept of hard work and
> reliability. You talk to most employers, and they will relate total
> frustration with the local help. Tardiness, frequent breaks, asking
> for time off after two weeks on the job, complaining, etc. In many
> cases, it seems, the premise that the Latins are stealing jobs from
> Americans is very wrong. They are doing the work because employers,
> even when paying competitive wages, cannot maintain a dedicated,
> stable work force. I must say watching these folks, if I was an
> employer I would hire them in a minute. They would make me successful.
> And I would check their credientials and pay them market rate.
>
> the Hammer
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034254 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:28 |
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I've never seen anything like that. Who is going to take a law case for an
illegal immigrant whose loss of wages isn't much and can't be documented,
probably. What exactly about mowing a lawn puts a homeowner at risk for
negligence. I doubt there a half a dozen cases in the whole country that fit
this description. Plus the fact that to sue the man would put him self at
risk to be deported.
<bigoldcat2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148483422.010841.324970 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Hammer wrote:
>> About 715 this am, a guy knocks on my door. He is a Mexican gentleman
>> I assume, in his mid 50's, with his wife. He volunteers to mow my lawn
>> for $35.
>
> SNIP, SNIP, SNIP.
>
> When some "Mexican gentleman" knocks on my door at 7:15 am, unless he
> is the President of Mexico, with whom I'd like to speak, security is
> called and these trespassers are escorted out of the area. Did you
> check his license and insurance papers? Sure you looked at his workers
> comp. Picture this guy hurting his back on your property, watch life
> get very bad. I've seen it.
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034269 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:07 |
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The Hammer wrote:
> About 715 this am, a guy knocks on my door. He is a Mexican gentleman
> I assume, in his mid 50's, with his wife. He volunteers to mow my lawn
> for $35. I never pay anyone to do my yardwork, I do itmyself, but my
> lawn looks somewhat bad right now. My rider mower is down and I am
> waiting for a replacement part. So, I take him up on it and he is done
> in less than an hour. Beautiful job. I gave him the $35 plus a $15
> tip. I offered him and his wife something to drink, we spoke for 5
> minutes. He told me that he and his wife do this 7 days a week during
> the warm months. They have regular customers and do door to door in
> between. I was impressed! In the 8 years I have lived in my home, no
> one has ever showed up like this.
>
> Played golf with a builder friend yesterday. He told me that all his
> framers are Latin, mostly Mexican with a few Guatemalans. He pays them
> the same thing he would pay any local. He told me that for the first
> time in years, he has a stable work force. They are on time, they work
> 7 days a week if needed. What really surprised me is that he told me
> that he has to TELL them to take breaks. He worries that they
> sometimes go to long without water or food.
>
> My golf club is simply stunning these days. Who is doing all the work.
> Latins, mostly Mexican. They are seldom seen sitting around doing
> nothing, they are in constant actitivy
>
> No doubt, the illegal issue is very distressing. Shame on the
> employers for doing this and shame on the govt for no enforcement. The
> implications on our health care system worrisome, as few have
> insurance. But you have to give these folks credit. They have an
> incredible work ethic. Everywhere you go these days where I live, it
> is Latins. Whether it be roof work, road work, landscaping, whatever,
> they are everywhere. Makes you wonder where we would be without them.
>
>
> These are decent people for the most part. Sure they have their
> rogues, what group doesn't. I am beginning to reconsider my stand on
> this whole issue. Maybe ammnesty and some form of work permits is a
> good idea. They seem to endorse the concept of hard work and
> reliability. You talk to most employers, and they will relate total
> frustration with the local help. Tardiness, frequent breaks, asking
> for time off after two weeks on the job, complaining, etc. In many
> cases, it seems, the premise that the Latins are stealing jobs from
> Americans is very wrong. They are doing the work because employers,
> even when paying competitive wages, cannot maintain a dedicated,
> stable work force. I must say watching these folks, if I was an
> employer I would hire them in a minute. They would make me successful.
> And I would check their credientials and pay them market rate.
>
> the Hammer
Shut up you corrupt whore. Anyone can see you were paid by the Aztlan
movement to post this nonsense.
I want the beaners out of america mainly because they are killers and
maimers on our highways. Mexican culture says that speeding and drunk
driving are ok.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034270 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:07 |
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(...temporarily ignoring my rule of participating in OT threads...)
Vincente Fox is visiting my town this afternoon as we have a
significant population of folks from Michoacan, Mexico living here. We
are Ag based in our economy and the Mexican workers are critical to the
success of many of our businesses.
For the most part, these folks are very pleasant to deal with and be
around. There is also a substantial amount of drugs and crime due
almost exclusively to a very small portion of our neighbors from the
south. Unfortunately, this polarizes our community.
I am a Realtor and land developer here. More and more Mexicans are
becoming home owners and are trying their best to assimilate into part
of Yakima's fabric. While all of the negative examples of their way of
life may be true, they also represent a minute portion of that
population.
(...now back to my self-imposed ban on OT chatter...)
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034279 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:37 |
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"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148486855.237245.301330 [at] 38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I want the beaners out of america mainly because they are killers and
> maimers on our highways. Mexican culture says that speeding and drunk
> driving are ok.
Look around. American culture says the same thing. Even federal law says
speed limits should be posted so that only 15% of drivers are driving over
the speed limit. Smart, huh?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034285 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:51 |
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AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
> I've never seen anything like that. Who is going to take a law case for an
> illegal immigrant whose loss of wages isn't much and can't be documented,
> probably. What exactly about mowing a lawn puts a homeowner at risk for
> negligence. I doubt there a half a dozen cases in the whole country that fit
> this description. Plus the fact that to sue the man would put him self at
> risk to be deported.
Are you kidding? Who would ever think illegals demand that their
children have access to free school and free health care? Who would
think Mexico would threaten to the the U.S. for protecting our own
borders?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034286 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 18:54 |
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Do they post Lawn Gardening comments in the Roofing newsgroup?
I have yet to see an Off-Topic post in this newsgroup that is so
insightful it is worth reading.....mindless drivel from people who
can't find anyone to listen to their ideas in person, so they post them
here...don't have the kahunas to post them in the political newsgroup
where their reasoning would be dissected by professionals in this area.
I have been gone for awhile and so when I dropped in this morning I was
hoping this was a post about Lee Trevino or Lorena Ochoa or....but
again I was reminded of what this newsgroup has become.. :(
We need to build a border-like fence around this newsgroup to keep the
pesky Off-Topic posters outta here!! They are lazy, don't learn the
etiquette, and drain our resources and take jobs away from legitimate
golf-loving posters.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034295 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 19:24 |
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> I am beginning to reconsider my stand on this whole issue.
A typical "big business" reaction. Illegal immigration is OK when it
benefits big business. Same goes for the lack or morals or ethics. Have
you reconsidered your stand on slavery as well?
I think that something is either right or it's wrong. And making a law
about it doesn't change that. I think some laws are wrong. A law just
makes something legal or illegal.
As for the immigration issue, I can see the benefits of having
immigrants here, legal or illegal. They work harder and cheaper. The
drawback is that this cheap labor keeps wages low for everyone doing
similar work. Mexicans aren't here because Americans won't do the
work. Mexicans are here because Americans won't do it for $5/hour.
So rather than paying an American a fair wage, businesses hire the
Mexicans.
Other than that, I don't see what they hurt.
The Guatemalans at my golf course do a great job. When extra workers
are needed for a special project the course has to use a temp service
who usually sends over a few white alcoholics who stand around for a
few hours smoking cigarettes and then don't show up the next day.
Some of my best friends are from other countries. Many of them are
probably not legal.
But they work hard and try to get by just like everyone else. What's
wrong with that?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034297 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 19:28 |
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"What's wrong with that? "
It's against the law.
You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
Ken
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034298 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:26 |
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NAFTA assured that trucks can cross the border unexamined. It was common
knowledge among those paying attention then but not the general public. Read
a Ross Perot book. I wonder why they even need tunnels, really.
"dugjustdug" <prestigerealty [at] yvn.com> wrote in message
news:1148486871.712223.302860 [at] 38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> (...temporarily ignoring my rule of participating in OT threads...)
>
> Vincente Fox is visiting my town this afternoon as we have a
> significant population of folks from Michoacan, Mexico living here. We
> are Ag based in our economy and the Mexican workers are critical to the
> success of many of our businesses.
>
> For the most part, these folks are very pleasant to deal with and be
> around. There is also a substantial amount of drugs and crime due
> almost exclusively to a very small portion of our neighbors from the
> south. Unfortunately, this polarizes our community.
>
> I am a Realtor and land developer here. More and more Mexicans are
> becoming home owners and are trying their best to assimilate into part
> of Yakima's fabric. While all of the negative examples of their way of
> life may be true, they also represent a minute portion of that
> population.
>
> (...now back to my self-imposed ban on OT chatter...)
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034300 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:28 |
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So the companies want the workers to work but without emergency health care
and we want the families to assimilate without education. Sort of like
"English is the official language. Learn it on your own."
The one thing I think we should do is to remove the part of the constitution
that says "If you are born here, you are an American citizen." Nobody is
saying that. I wonder why.
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148489495.194438.30740 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> AKA Gray Asphalt wrote:
>> I've never seen anything like that. Who is going to take a law case for
>> an
>> illegal immigrant whose loss of wages isn't much and can't be documented,
>> probably. What exactly about mowing a lawn puts a homeowner at risk for
>> negligence. I doubt there a half a dozen cases in the whole country that
>> fit
>> this description. Plus the fact that to sue the man would put him self at
>> risk to be deported.
>
> Are you kidding? Who would ever think illegals demand that their
> children have access to free school and free health care? Who would
> think Mexico would threaten to the the U.S. for protecting our own
> borders?
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034301 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 19:33 |
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And yet, almost as much energy went into your reply as Hammer's original
post. Good one!!
"Cal Golfer" <Bill_VP [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148489686.574419.207420 [at] 38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Do they post Lawn Gardening comments in the Roofing newsgroup?
>
> I have yet to see an Off-Topic post in this newsgroup that is so
> insightful it is worth reading.....mindless drivel from people who
> can't find anyone to listen to their ideas in person, so they post them
> here...don't have the kahunas to post them in the political newsgroup
> where their reasoning would be dissected by professionals in this area.
>
> I have been gone for awhile and so when I dropped in this morning I was
> hoping this was a post about Lee Trevino or Lorena Ochoa or....but
> again I was reminded of what this newsgroup has become.. :(
>
> We need to build a border-like fence around this newsgroup to keep the
> pesky Off-Topic posters outta here!! They are lazy, don't learn the
> etiquette, and drain our resources and take jobs away from legitimate
> golf-loving posters.
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034302 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:30 |
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It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
landscapers. Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
"annika1980" <annika1980 [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:1148491484.848196.278250 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> I am beginning to reconsider my stand on this whole issue.
>
> A typical "big business" reaction. Illegal immigration is OK when it
> benefits big business. Same goes for the lack or morals or ethics. Have
> you reconsidered your stand on slavery as well?
>
> I think that something is either right or it's wrong. And making a law
> about it doesn't change that. I think some laws are wrong. A law just
> makes something legal or illegal.
>
> As for the immigration issue, I can see the benefits of having
> immigrants here, legal or illegal. They work harder and cheaper. The
> drawback is that this cheap labor keeps wages low for everyone doing
> similar work. Mexicans aren't here because Americans won't do the
> work. Mexicans are here because Americans won't do it for $5/hour.
> So rather than paying an American a fair wage, businesses hire the
> Mexicans.
> Other than that, I don't see what they hurt.
>
> The Guatemalans at my golf course do a great job. When extra workers
> are needed for a special project the course has to use a temp service
> who usually sends over a few white alcoholics who stand around for a
> few hours smoking cigarettes and then don't show up the next day.
>
> Some of my best friends are from other countries. Many of them are
> probably not legal.
> But they work hard and try to get by just like everyone else. What's
> wrong with that?
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034303 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:31 |
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We are a nation of laws, except when it comes to tapping phones without
court order or court supervision. I guess we're a sort of nation of laws.
<kenpittsjr [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148491729.178030.308960 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "What's wrong with that? "
>
> It's against the law.
>
> You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
> it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
> violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
>
> Ken
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034312 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 19:58 |
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A couple white kids came over one winter asking if they could shovel my
walks and driveway.
I immediately pulled my sidearm, forced them facedown in the snow and
ductaped their hands and feet. I demanded to see their licenses and
insurance papers and of course they had none. No ID, no workers comp,
no social security cards, no nothing. Just some Pokemon cards. Could
have been Al Qaida for all anyone knows.
Picture these kids hurting their back on my property and watch life get
very bad. I heard a guy "saw it" one time.
Little worthless non-documented white kids with lazy stupid white
parents is all they were.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034318 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:09 |
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On Wed, 24 May 2006 11:26:20 -0700, "AKA Gray Asphalt"
<goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
>NAFTA assured that trucks can cross the border unexamined. It was common
>knowledge among those paying attention then but not the general public. Read
>a Ross Perot book. I wonder why they even need tunnels, really.
Everybody remembers when H.Ross told us about Mexicans in Mexico
getting our jobs. But either they have jobs in Mexico, or they will
do everything they can to have jobs elsewhere.
Job migration is an old problem. Industrial textile jobs moved from
England to New England to North Carolina to Taiwan to Vietnam, and in
the short run, people were hurt when the jobs left.
I worked for EDS when GM bought it. EDS made lots of money selling
its product overseas. Heck, his most famous customer was Iran.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034324 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 20:18 |
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""We are a nation of laws, except when it comes to tapping phones
without
court order or court supervision. I guess we're a sort of nation of
laws."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813123/posts
Where was the outrage over this little gem, a far more serious
violation of public trust. I hear so many legal versions of this NSA
thing, I'm not at all sure that there is a problem.
Which is it? Do we want to root out the terrorists that are surely here
or do we want to be squeeky clean by the letter of the law 100% of the
time?
Mr Bin Laden is holding on line 1.
Ken
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034350 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 21:08 |
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"Howard Brazee" <howard [at] brazee.net> wrote in message
news:vu79725mrhknfrcdck8obha7eiob7fnc5n [at] 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 11:26:20 -0700, "AKA Gray Asphalt"
> <goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote:
>
> >NAFTA assured that trucks can cross the border unexamined. It was common
> >knowledge among those paying attention then but not the general public.
Read
> >a Ross Perot book. I wonder why they even need tunnels, really.
>
> Everybody remembers when H.Ross told us about Mexicans in Mexico
> getting our jobs. But either they have jobs in Mexico, or they will
> do everything they can to have jobs elsewhere.
>
> Job migration is an old problem. Industrial textile jobs moved from
> England to New England to North Carolina to Taiwan to Vietnam, and in
> the short run, people were hurt when the jobs left.
>
> I worked for EDS when GM bought it. EDS made lots of money selling
> its product overseas. Heck, his most famous customer was Iran.
Selling products overseas is a good thing.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034374 ] |
Wed, 24 May 2006 22:17 |
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<danc55344 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148493481.968467.182830 [at] 38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> A couple white kids came over one winter asking if they could shovel my
> walks and driveway.
>
> I immediately pulled my sidearm, forced them facedown in the snow and
> ductaped their hands and feet. I demanded to see their licenses and
> insurance papers and of course they had none. No ID, no workers comp,
> no social security cards, no nothing. Just some Pokemon cards. Could
> have been Al Qaida for all anyone knows.
I hate to sound trite, but....LOL. and I mean the OL part (I rarely laugh OL
while reading)
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034395 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 00:26 |
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Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
>
> Shut up you corrupt whore. Anyone can see you were paid by the Aztlan
> movement to post this nonsense.
>
> I want the beaners out of america mainly because they are killers and
> maimers on our highways. Mexican culture says that speeding and drunk
> driving are ok.
And we should give a fuck what a delusional retard wants WHY?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034432 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 00:17 |
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"AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote in message
news:_O0dg.75466$iU2.39068 [at] fed1read01...
>
> It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
> landscapers.
>Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
>
VERY BIG buisiness.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034451 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 03:38 |
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Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> Shut up you corrupt whore. Anyone can see you were paid by the Aztlan
> movement to post this nonsense.
Got proof? Didn't think you did, Xeton. Why would this post be any
different than any of your others?
> I want the beaners out of america mainly because they are killers and
> maimers on our highways. Mexican culture says that speeding and drunk
> driving are ok.
Who gives two shits what you want? You're too stupid and pathetic to
make intelligent, informed decisions, and fortunately the majority of
society doesn't share your delusions.
As long as Mexicans are willing to do the jobs that Americans have
gotten too fat and lazy do to, I say let the Mexicans have those jobs.
Perhaps after a few Americans have starved to death, the rest of the
losers will wake up and realize what it means to work for a living.
Fortunately this will happen in Mexifornia and neighboring states
before it starts to be a major problem in the important areas of the
country.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034474 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:06 |
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<kenpittsjr [at] gmail.com> wrote ...
> "What's wrong with that? "
>
> It's against the law.
>
> You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
> it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
> violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
I agree with you, but if you intend to wait on Republicans to go after
business for the role it has played in exacerbating this problem, you will
be waiting for a very long time. Republicans have their noses so far up
business's ass that they'd rather make the poor kid who flips burgers at
McDonald's into the bad guy than a corporate giant like McDonald's who could
afford to pay more than minimum wage to hire someone to say "do you want
ketchup with that?" Despite the fact that business is largely to blame for
the problem in the first place, Republicans will never do more than give lip
service to enforcement of this issue with big business. Of that, I'm quite
sure.
Personally, I have no horse in this race. And I see both sides of the
immigration issue.
On the one hand, the law is the law -- if these illegal immigrants broke it
in crossing the border, I can certainly understand why some people want them
sent back, regardless of the consequences. And in referring to "the
consequences," I'm not just talking about the economic consequences of
losing so many workers. I'm mostly talking about the enormous resources it
would take to deport them all, something that is simply not practical. Even
if it could be done, this Republican Congress would just defer payment for
it our children and grandchildren, like they have with everything else.
On the other hand, I also understand why someone living in Mexico would want
to cross the border and get to a place where there are jobs that actually
pay a few bucks an hour, something many Mexicans simply can't find in
Mexico -- the land of no opportunity. Who can blame them for wanting to
live in America instead of that impoverished hell hole south of the border?
I've lived in El Paso, and I remember driving along the US highway that
overlooked the Juarez countryside, seeing that they didn't even have
electricity. At night, there was simply no light over there.
The irony I have thus far been unable to reconcile is this: Many of the
same people who embraced Illian Gonzalez (or whatever his name was -- the
kid whose face was splashed across every newspaper in the country with a
rifle pointed at him when INS agents stormed his safe house in Florida after
he was taken from Cuba to America), saying the kid (and anybody else) is
better off in America, seem to be the same people who are now failing to
embrace these Mexicans who are crossing the border because of the
opportunities (such as they are) that are available to them in our beloved
home of the free. It seems these staunch conservatives want it both ways.
I guess it's easier to feel sorry for someone when that someone is a kid
with a gun pointed at his face by big, mean-looking government agents than
it is to feel sorry for a bunch of poor Mexicans who scatter across the
desert at night like a hoard of cock roaches.
Oddly, this issue may be the only one in which I have actually agreed with
President Bush (which is a major news bulletin in itself). What I don't
quite understand is why he waited until now -- fully five and a half years
after taking office -- to bring it up. I mean, as Governor of Texas, it's
not like this issue was something he hadn't heard of until it started making
national headlines a few months ago.
But of course everyone knows why he waited until now to bring it up.
Because until millions of immigrants poured into the streets of America's
great cities and were shown coast-to-coast on television screens in the
living rooms of every living American, he could sweep this dirty little
secret under the rug, just like he does with so many other issues about
which this Administration goes out of its way to keep us in the dark.
Randy
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034478 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:30 |
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On Wed, 24 May 2006 18:17:52 -0400, FredK wrote:
> "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote in message
> news:_O0dg.75466$iU2.39068 [at] fed1read01...
>>
>> It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
>> landscapers.
>
>>Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
>
> VERY BIG buisiness.
Tyson Foods got caught employing truckloads of illegals last year. So did
Walmart IIRC. Those companies would love to have legal workers who'd work
long hours at minimum wage. What's so funny is Rove is making illegal
immigration this year's hot election year issue (tm). And then as soon as
the election is over the Republicans will pass guest worker legislation
anyway. Money talks, and Tyson and Walmart have all they need to grease
the wheels in Washington.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034479 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:30 |
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annika1980 wrote:
> > I am beginning to reconsider my stand on this whole issue.
>
> A typical "big business" reaction. Illegal immigration is OK when it
> benefits big business. Same goes for the lack or morals or ethics. Have
> you reconsidered your stand on slavery as well?
Have you reconsidered what it means to WORK for a living, or are you a
union member?
> I think that something is either right or it's wrong. And making a law
> about it doesn't change that. I think some laws are wrong. A law just
> makes something legal or illegal.
Good observation. Very obvious, but good none the less.
> As for the immigration issue, I can see the benefits of having
> immigrants here, legal or illegal. They work harder and cheaper. The
> drawback is that this cheap labor keeps wages low for everyone doing
> similar work. Mexicans aren't here because Americans won't do the
> work. Mexicans are here because Americans won't do it for $5/hour.
> So rather than paying an American a fair wage, businesses hire the
> Mexicans.
> Other than that, I don't see what they hurt.
Even if Americans would do it for $5 an hour, or if they were to
receive $25/hour for a job that a Mexican would do for $5 an hour, I'd
be willing to bet the Mexican would do a much better job. Americans
have gotten too fat and lazy, and believe they are "entitled" to a job.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034481 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:36 |
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On Wed, 24 May 2006 11:18:44 -0700, kenpittsjr wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813123/posts
>
> Where was the outrage over this little gem, a far more serious violation
> of public trust. I hear so many legal versions of this NSA thing, I'm
> not at all sure that there is a problem.
You're not sure there's a problem? Have you lost your mind?
Clue: a surveillance state, which is exactly what's being constructed
right now, is not compatible with democracy. Period.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034484 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:41 |
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<kenpittsjr [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148494724.612881.33070 [at] y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> ""We are a nation of laws, except when it comes to tapping phones
> without
> court order or court supervision. I guess we're a sort of nation of
> laws."
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813123/posts
>
> Where was the outrage over this little gem, a far more serious
> violation of public trust. I hear so many legal versions of this NSA
> thing, I'm not at all sure that there is a problem.
>
> Which is it? Do we want to root out the terrorists that are surely here
> or do we want to be squeeky clean by the letter of the law 100% of the
> time?
>
> Mr Bin Laden is holding on line 1.
I would be fine with the government spying on us if I trusted them to be
using that information solely for the purpose of rooting out terrorists for
national security. Unfortunately, I don't trust the Justice Department or
the Defense Department or the NSA that far. And the facts back me up.
Remember when Bush pushed his so-called Patriot Act through Congress in the
wake of 9/11? It was all in the name of giving law enforcement the tools
they needed to "fight the terrorists," and we were told that these
infringements of our liberties would not be used for any other purpose but
to avenge the attacks on 9/11 and root out terrorists. Since that time,
there have been dozens of documented incidents in which latitude granted to
law enforcement through the Patriot Act was used to hunt down and convict
criminals for offenses that have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
Now I'm all in favor of putting criminals away, but the simple fact is, the
Patriot Act was sold to the American people as a necessity to fight
terrorists, and we were told it wouldn't be used for any other purpose. You
can add that to the ever-growing list of things the Bush Administration has
lied about.
I don't trust 'em, and I never will. And no one who has actually been
paying attention does, either.
Randy
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034486 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:48 |
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Wal-Mart did not hire illegal's. A contractor did despite assuring Wal-Mart
they weren't hiring illegals.
IIRCing your facts is waving a red flag for here comes the bullshit.
"Carbon" <nobrac [at] nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.05.25.03.29.51.744883 [at] nospam.verizon.net...
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 18:17:52 -0400, FredK wrote:
>> "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:_O0dg.75466$iU2.39068 [at] fed1read01...
>>>
>>> It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
>>> landscapers.
>>
>>>Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
>>
>> VERY BIG buisiness.
>
> Tyson Foods got caught employing truckloads of illegals last year. So did
> Walmart IIRC. Those companies would love to have legal workers who'd work
> long hours at minimum wage. What's so funny is Rove is making illegal
> immigration this year's hot election year issue (tm). And then as soon as
> the election is over the Republicans will pass guest worker legislation
> anyway. Money talks, and Tyson and Walmart have all they need to grease
> the wheels in Washington.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034487 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:53 |
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>It's against the law.
>You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
>it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
>violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
Very true. We could end the problem in a hurry by going after the
employers.
The question is, "Do we want to?" So far, we obviously don't.
Apparently, all these illegals do us more good than harm.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034488 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:54 |
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Big business is not going to make it a practice to knowingly hire illegal's.
a) The reward of saving a few bucks isn't worth the risk.
b) Their own employees will blow the whistle
c) Unions will make a big deal about their protecting the employees from the
boss.
"FredK" <fred.nospam [at] nospam.dec.com> wrote in message
news:4474db91$1 [at] usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> "AKA Gray Asphalt" <goodidea1950 [at] hotmail.spam.com> wrote in message
> news:_O0dg.75466$iU2.39068 [at] fed1read01...
>>
>> It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
>> landscapers.
>
>>Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
>>
>
>
> VERY BIG buisiness.
>
>
>
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034489 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 05:56 |
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>It's not big business though, is it. Mostly restaurants and hotels and
>landscapers. Maybe the large farms, if you call that big business.
Pretty much anything having to do with agriculture, large or small.
Perhaps I should've said "widespread business."
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034490 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 06:03 |
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>Americans have gotten too fat and lazy, and believe they are "entitled" to a job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the old "fat and lazy" argument.
Now shuddup and pass me the remote control, would ya?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034491 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 06:06 |
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"R&B" wrote:
> Remember when Bush pushed his so-called Patriot Act through Congress in the
> wake of 9/11? It was all in the name of giving law enforcement the tools
> they needed to "fight the terrorists," and we were told that these
> infringements of our liberties would not be used for any other purpose but
> to avenge the attacks on 9/11 and root out terrorists. Since that time,
> there have been dozens of documented incidents in which latitude granted to
> law enforcement through the Patriot Act was used to hunt down and convict
> criminals for offenses that have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
>
Yeah, but look at all the terrorists we captured.
Ok, well maybe it's only 1 and he was a kook and didn't really have
anything to do with it, but who cares, right?
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034501 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 07:15 |
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813123/posts
>Where was the outrage over this little gem, a far more serious
>violation of public trust. I hear so many legal versions of this NSA
>thing, I'm not at all sure that there is a problem.
Dammit, I just KNEW it had to be Clinton's fault!
Let's make this real simple for you Ken. The NSA, under orders from
the White House has conducted illegal wiretaps. That's a problem.
>Which is it? Do we want to root out the terrorists that are surely here
>or do we want to be squeeky clean by the letter of the law 100% of the
>time?
You bucking for a job in the Cheney Administration?
Hell, let's just kill all Muslim looking men. I mean, why take the
chance?
How many terrorists do you think they've rooted out so far? Zero.
But now they do know who Hillary Clinton has been talking to. That's
important.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034526 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 14:48 |
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On Wed, 24 May 2006 21:06:44 -0700, annika1980 wrote:
> Yeah, but look at all the terrorists we captured. Ok, well maybe it's
> only 1 and he was a kook and didn't really have anything to do with it,
> but who cares, right?
Well I think the Bush regime did capture a lot of terrorists, but then
they squirreled them away to all those secret prisons and tortured them.
Imagine those defendants in court saying, "after they hooked the
electrodes up to my testicles I told them everything they wanted to hear."
That would have been embarrassing, so they had a show trial with Moussaoui
instead. Who cares that he had nothing to do with 9/11? He looks Arab,
doesn't he? He must be guilty of something.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034530 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 15:21 |
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On Wed, 24 May 2006 23:48:46 -0400, sfb wrote:
> "Carbon" <nobrac [at] nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2006.05.25.03.29.51.744883 [at] nospam.verizon.net...
>> Tyson Foods got caught employing truckloads of illegals last year. So
>> did Walmart IIRC. Those companies would love to have legal workers
>> who'd work long hours at minimum wage. What's so funny is Rove is
>> making illegal immigration this year's hot election year issue (tm).
>> And then as soon as the election is over the Republicans will pass
>> guest worker legislation anyway. Money talks, and Tyson and Walmart
>> have all they need to grease the wheels in Washington.
> Wal-Mart did not hire illegal's. A contractor did despite assuring
> Wal-Mart they weren't hiring illegals.
I fixed your top post. It's "illegals." Now where were we? Oh yes,
contractors. You seem to believe Walmart had NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that those
hundreds of workers who couldn't speak English could possibly be illegal.
Perish the thought! Why they had a sworn affadavit from their contractor
saying that all employees were legally entitled to work in the U.S.!
Here on planet Earth, contractors make a lot of money supplying illegal
workers to large companies for low-skill labor intensive jobs. Companies
like contractors because they can blame them if anything goes wrong. Also
Mexicans are better workers than the alcoholic and drug addicted Americans
that used to do those jobs.
> IIRCing your facts is waving a red flag for here comes the bullshit.
.... or saying I can't be arsed to find the reference. I guess 300 workers
at 60 stores in 21 states is just a coincidence, right? Here:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2003-10-23-w almart-arrests_x.htm
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034532 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 15:26 |
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annika1980 wrote:
> >It's against the law.
>
> >You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
> >it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
> >violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
>
> Very true. We could end the problem in a hurry by going after the
> employers.
> The question is, "Do we want to?" So far, we obviously don't.
> Apparently, all these illegals do us more good than harm.
Congress in the '80s passed a law criminalizing the hiring of illegal
aliens. Employers were subject to arrest if they did so. It obviously
hasn't worked. Green cards and SS cards are forged. And businesspeople
complain to their bought-and-paid-for members of Congress about being
harrassed by the INS, so the INS is scared to enforce the law. A few
years ago, they tried a new tack: they called businesses before staging
a "raid" and said, we're coming. If you have any illegals working
there, you'd better fire them before we get there.
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| Re: OT Different Spin on the Mexican issue [message #1034533 ] |
Thu, 25 May 2006 15:27 |
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annika1980 wrote:
> >It's against the law.
>
> >You and I are probably not that far apart on this issue (other than how
> >it is used for spin). Go after the employers just like the people who
> >violate our borders. The problem wouldn't last long.
>
> Very true. We could end the problem in a hurry by going after the
> employers.
> The question is, "Do we want to?" So far, we obviously don't.
> Apparently, all these illegals do us more good than harm.
Congress in the '80s passed a law criminalizing the hiring of illegal
aliens. Employers were subject to arrest if they did so. It obviously
hasn't worked. Green cards and SS cards are forged. And businesspeople
complain to their bought-and-paid-for members of Congress about being
harrassed by the INS, so the INS is scared to enforce the law. A few
years ago, they tried a new tack: they called businesses before staging
a "raid" and said, we're coming. If you have any illegals working
there, you'd better fire them before we get there. I don't know what
the solution is, but making businesses responsible for enforcing
immigration law ain't it.
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