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Sports » rec.sport.golf » The muscle repeatability limit
| The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033463] |
Fr, 19 Mai 2006 20:59 |
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Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles telling
you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just doesn't
get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
suspect
the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot you
simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low and
chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin. The dirty little
secret of golf is it's a very
unforgiving game, and if you already play and practice a bunch you probably
aren't going to get a lot better at it. The sweetspot on a club is at best
a square inch, and if you can't consistently hit that after bringing the
clubhead through a 6+ foot diameter arc you won't get consistent shots. An
alignment error of a degree or two in the face is the difference between
being on the green or on the fairway, or in deep trouble. Making consistent
square contact requires the golfer to be able to repeat muscle movements
with great precision. I strongly suspect that most of us have an inherent
repeatability limit. Maybe it's in our genes or maybe it's in our early
training, but it's clear enough from watching the pros that one of the
things that separates them from the rest of us is the ability to make the
same swing, within milimeters, every time.
I almost envy the players I see on the range who beat ball after ball with
the same clunky
swing and same wicked slice -- that guy can get a lesson to correct the bad
swing and start hitting it better. When I step up to a ball on the range, I
hit most of them pretty straight, but the bad ones are just as likely to go
left as right -- Sometimes the swing is a little off in one direction and
sometimes in another.
I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the natural
athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time out.
For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do is
learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of those
other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example. The
pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you hit
the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a little
high and it's skull city.
The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved? I
haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery [at] att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033482 ] |
Fr, 19 Mai 2006 21:31 |
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"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> a écrit dans le message
de news:urqdne45PN4wiPPZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles
telling
> you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
> the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just
doesn't
> get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
> and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
> being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
> which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
> suspect
> the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot
you
> simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
> than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low
and
> chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin. The dirty little
> secret of golf is it's a very
> unforgiving game, and if you already play and practice a bunch you
probably
> aren't going to get a lot better at it. The sweetspot on a club is at
best
> a square inch, and if you can't consistently hit that after bringing the
> clubhead through a 6+ foot diameter arc you won't get consistent shots.
An
> alignment error of a degree or two in the face is the difference between
> being on the green or on the fairway, or in deep trouble. Making
consistent
> square contact requires the golfer to be able to repeat muscle movements
> with great precision. I strongly suspect that most of us have an inherent
> repeatability limit. Maybe it's in our genes or maybe it's in our early
> training, but it's clear enough from watching the pros that one of the
> things that separates them from the rest of us is the ability to make the
> same swing, within milimeters, every time.
>
> I almost envy the players I see on the range who beat ball after ball with
> the same clunky
> swing and same wicked slice -- that guy can get a lesson to correct the
bad
> swing and start hitting it better. When I step up to a ball on the range,
I
> hit most of them pretty straight, but the bad ones are just as likely to
go
> left as right -- Sometimes the swing is a little off in one direction and
> sometimes in another.
>
> I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the
natural
> athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
> sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
> ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time
out.
> For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
> whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do
is
> learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
> same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of
those
> other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example.
The
> pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you
hit
> the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
> the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
> just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a
little
> high and it's skull city.
>
> The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved?
I
> haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery [at] att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
>
>
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit (long) [message #1033490 ] |
Fr, 19 Mai 2006 23:20 |
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warren montgomery wrote:
> Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles telling
> you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
> the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just doesn't
> get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
> and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
> being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
> which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
> suspect
> the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot you
> simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
> than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low and
> chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin. The dirty little
> secret of golf is it's a very
> unforgiving game, and if you already play and practice a bunch you probably
> aren't going to get a lot better at it. The sweetspot on a club is at best
> a square inch, and if you can't consistently hit that after bringing the
> clubhead through a 6+ foot diameter arc you won't get consistent shots. An
> alignment error of a degree or two in the face is the difference between
> being on the green or on the fairway, or in deep trouble. Making consistent
> square contact requires the golfer to be able to repeat muscle movements
> with great precision. I strongly suspect that most of us have an inherent
> repeatability limit. Maybe it's in our genes or maybe it's in our early
> training, but it's clear enough from watching the pros that one of the
> things that separates them from the rest of us is the ability to make the
> same swing, within milimeters, every time.
>
> I almost envy the players I see on the range who beat ball after ball with
> the same clunky
> swing and same wicked slice -- that guy can get a lesson to correct the bad
> swing and start hitting it better. When I step up to a ball on the range, I
> hit most of them pretty straight, but the bad ones are just as likely to go
> left as right -- Sometimes the swing is a little off in one direction and
> sometimes in another.
>
> I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the natural
> athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
> sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
> ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time out.
> For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
> whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do is
> learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
> same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of those
> other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example. The
> pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you hit
> the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
> the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
> just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a little
> high and it's skull city.
>
> The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved? I
> haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
>
You may have something, but I suspect that much of what might be taken
for "repeatability" is related to things like setup, and mental preparation.
I believe that the lack of repeatability is why the mental game is so
important. You're not going to be perfect; what you do with the
knowledge that you're imperfect is what the mental game is all about.
This is an interesting issue, Warren. Many golfers search for the
perfect swing, and are angry when they cannot be perfect time after
time. A better approach, in my view, is that you have to accept, as Bob
Rotella says, that "Golf is not a game of perfect."
The only time I ever am upset with myself over a bad shot is when it is
a result of poor setup or bad mental preparation. I'm not going to hit
every shot perfectly, nor even in some cases, serviceably.
The question, following such a less-than-perfect shot, is twofold:
First, did I play the shot well in a course-management way, such that
its lack of perfection hasn't caused me to be in deep doo-doo? and
second, now what am I going to do with the subsequent shot?
The first question is simply one of limiting damage from bad shots, not
taking silly risks with bad risk-reward ratios, not playing the easy
shot instead of the hard shot. Course management can make up for a ton
of bad shotmaking.
The second question involves the ability to put the previous shot out of
the mind. I like to think of that next shot as if I came to the course
that day, and someone randomly tossed the ball out on the course and I'm
supposed to hit it. If I think of it that way--as if it were the first
shot of the day, placed there by someone in a random fashion--then I'm
not responsible for its position, nor its difficulty. It's only my job
to figure out what I can best do with it.
When I was a much worse golfer than I am now, I used to think that golf
nirvana resided in learning the swing. I now know that the swing isn't
as important as I used to think it was. What caused me to improve, to a
great extent, was learning, not the swing, but the game.
I played with a guy yesterday (37 handicap) who isn't yet ready to
understand this. He hits the ball further than I can, but who knows
where it's going to end up? He can't tell when he should keep the
driver in the bag, and when he should hit his 3-wood or even an iron off
the tee. He doesn't understand that there is a better side, and a worse
side, to miss a green (if you have to miss).
It was all the more frustrating yesterday because I played with him in a
competition where our team of four had to count one best net ball on the
first six holes, two best net balls on the second six holes, and three
net best balls on the third six holes.
So this guy, with his handicap, was getting two strokes a hole. We (the
other three of us--handicaps of 3, 5, and 7) figured that if we could
coach him up a bit, help him make better course management decisions,
we'd clean up.
He understood we were going to do this, but it didn't matter. Heck, on
one hole--par 5, 592 yards straightaway, on which he'd get THREE strokes
--all he had to do was hit four 8-irons in a row and he'd be by the
green. Then if he could get up and down in three for a 7, he'd have a
net birdie.
First shot, with driver: Way right, behind a tree, punch back into
fairway.
Second shot: Punches out too far, onto an uphill lie.
Third shot: Uphill lie. Pulls the 3-wood, and hits behind the ball,
dribbling it up about 40 yards.
Fourth shot: Pulls the 3-wood again, and proceeds to hook the ball OB.
Sixth shot: Overcompensates for the hook, and hits it WAY right.
Seventh shot: Hits it near the green, just off the fringe.
Eighth shot: Chips on, 10 feet from the hole.
Ninth and tenth shots: Two putts.
The whole day was like this.
Finally, on the back nine, he'd relaxed a bit. On one par 4, he hit a
3-wood fat off the tee; I coached him that all he wanted was to be near
the green in two, and he hit a hook that ended up about 5 feet short and
left of the green. So he's greenside in two. Third shot was a chip to
about 6 feet (and not a very good one at that, actually), and then he
sank the putt for a PAR. And a net Eagle.
Afterwards, in the bar, we were reviewing that hole in contrast to a
couple others (and BTW, he *wants* to get better, so we weren't berating
him, we were trying to help him learn).
But he just doesn't yet get it. He wants to hit these long, majestic
drives, and these pinpoint iron approach shots. That's all well and
good, but he's never going to be a very good *golfer* until he learns
that golf is much more about the game, than it will ever be about the swing.
Somebody once said that "Golf is a game played on a 5-inch course--the
one between the ears."
Nothing truer has ever been said.
Mike
--
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com
RSG-Wisconsin 2006: June 23-25 Info: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2006/
RSG-Wisconsin 2005 Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2005/pics/
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033552 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 05:34 |
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An interesting theory, although in my experience it's as much a matter
of mental focus as it is some muscle/body limitation. If you're hitting
a substantial percentage of chips fat/thin, then I suspect it's either
inconsistant setup, or some extra body movement during the swing, or
you're not focused on hitting the ball solid. In my case, it's mostly
the latter ... some combination of fear, uncertainty and doubt creeps in
there and I start thinking about how hard I need to swing or where the
ball is going rather than staying focused on contact and simply
repeating my practice stroke.
The full swing certainly has more room for error, but I still feel like
a lot of my mistakes are caused by lack of confidence or not being relaxed.
Of course the other side of this is that you're absolutely right, in the
sense that no one can perfectly repeat their swing, and golf is about
minimizing the mistakes and recovering from them. Even the pros don't
hit anywhere near every fairway and green.
Rob
warren montgomery wrote:
> Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles telling
> you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
> the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just doesn't
> get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
> and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
> being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
> which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
> suspect
> the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot you
> simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
> than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low and
> chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin.
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit (long) [message #1033562 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 14:36 |
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 16:20:02 -0500, Mike Dalecki wrote:
> You may have something, but I suspect that much of what might be taken
> for "repeatability" is related to things like setup, and mental
> preparation.
>
> I believe that the lack of repeatability is why the mental game is so
> important. You're not going to be perfect; what you do with the
> knowledge that you're imperfect is what the mental game is all about.
Wow, two well-written and interesting posts in a row. RSG is on a roll,
I'm tellin ya!
The fellow who got me into the game was a 2 or 3 handicap. He usually only
played once a week. He was very good at many different sports. I don't
think he had to put the same kind of effort into being solid as most
golfers. Of course he screwed shots up, sometimes very easy ones, but by
and large he just got up there and hit it. I would caddy for him in
tournaments sometimes, and it amazed me how good these guys in the
championship flight were. Other than the odd vanity handicapper ("I never
play this bad!"), they were all just like him.
Like any low handicapper he cared about mental preparation and course
management, but I think he was successful largely because his hand-eye
coordination was just so much better than average. On his worst day he
would wipe the floor with your typical 17 handicap hacker, no matter how
many times they read GINAPOP.
Some people are just more talented than others. You're what, a 6 or 7?
That's really excellent, probably 95th percentile or higher among amateur
golfers. Now imagine playing a guy who with the same effortless looking
swing hits 5-iron after 5-iron 200 yards with the same 5 yard draw.
Imagine that he has similar skill at chipping, pitching, and putting.
Perhaps trying to fly that bunker 280 out isn't the smartest move, but
then he's so solid he's probably going to make it anyway.
Even without putting a lot of effort into course management, guys like
that are very tough.
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033573 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 18:41 |
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Re: Attached
Clearly some folks are naturally going to be better than others at
generating some kind of muscle driven motion in a precise manner, regardless
of what it is. But I think that there is another dimension here.
In my case if I ignore swing mechanics and just let my swing deteriorate
naturally to where it wants to go, I end up with a very inside and very flat
swing. I don't know why this is (maybe 10 years of early age golf
development without formal lessons). But it isn't a swing that can tolerate
much deviation from perfect if a controllable shot is your goal. If you just
love huge push fades interspersed with sweeping hooks and occasional
subconscious attempts at getting on plane with an OTT move (usually
resulting in a shank in my case), then have I got a swing for you.
I wonder how much of this is a function of simply what your instincts tell
you to do and how close this is to some repeatable golf mechanics. I
remember that cute ad with a 4-5 year old Tiger Woods. They took some early
video of Tiger and altered it to make it look like he was playing #18 at St.
Andrews. One of the shots that he hits is a long chip shot where he has this
incredibly firm left side clear through to the end.
Now maybe Earl took Tiger when he was 3 and taught him to do it that way,
but I kinda' doubt it. I suspect that Tiger at least had a strong tendency
to do it that way naturally. My instinctive motion is a collapsing left
side.
dave
"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:urqdne45PN4wiPPZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles
telling
> you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
> the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just
doesn't
> get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
> and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
> being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
> which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
> suspect
> the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot
you
> simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
> than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low
and
> chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin. The dirty little
> secret of golf is it's a very
> unforgiving game, and if you already play and practice a bunch you
probably
> aren't going to get a lot better at it. The sweetspot on a club is at
best
> a square inch, and if you can't consistently hit that after bringing the
> clubhead through a 6+ foot diameter arc you won't get consistent shots.
An
> alignment error of a degree or two in the face is the difference between
> being on the green or on the fairway, or in deep trouble. Making
consistent
> square contact requires the golfer to be able to repeat muscle movements
> with great precision. I strongly suspect that most of us have an inherent
> repeatability limit. Maybe it's in our genes or maybe it's in our early
> training, but it's clear enough from watching the pros that one of the
> things that separates them from the rest of us is the ability to make the
> same swing, within milimeters, every time.
>
> I almost envy the players I see on the range who beat ball after ball with
> the same clunky
> swing and same wicked slice -- that guy can get a lesson to correct the
bad
> swing and start hitting it better. When I step up to a ball on the range,
I
> hit most of them pretty straight, but the bad ones are just as likely to
go
> left as right -- Sometimes the swing is a little off in one direction and
> sometimes in another.
>
> I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the
natural
> athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
> sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
> ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time
out.
> For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
> whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do
is
> learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
> same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of
those
> other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example.
The
> pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you
hit
> the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
> the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
> just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a
little
> high and it's skull city.
>
> The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved?
I
> haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery [at] att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
>
>
>
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033576 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 19:24 |
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"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:urqdne45PN4wiPPZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Yesterday I was reading yet another of those instructional articles
telling
> you to just practice something, in this case chipping, until you can do it
> the same every time. It occurred to me that whoever wrote that just
doesn't
> get it. I play and practice a lot these days, I still hit some chips fat
> and some chips thin. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or not
> being familiar enough with the motion, I've just reached the limit with
> which my muscles will repeat the same motions. Unfortunately for me and I
> suspect
> the majority of golfers, no matter how many times you practice the shot
you
> simply can't repeat the same motion through the ball with more precision
> than about half an inch, meaning that sometimes you come in a little low
and
> chunk it and sometimes a little high and hit it thin. The dirty little
> secret of golf is it's a very
> unforgiving game, and if you already play and practice a bunch you
probably
> aren't going to get a lot better at it. The sweetspot on a club is at
best
> a square inch, and if you can't consistently hit that after bringing the
> clubhead through a 6+ foot diameter arc you won't get consistent shots.
An
> alignment error of a degree or two in the face is the difference between
> being on the green or on the fairway, or in deep trouble. Making
consistent
> square contact requires the golfer to be able to repeat muscle movements
> with great precision. I strongly suspect that most of us have an inherent
> repeatability limit. Maybe it's in our genes or maybe it's in our early
> training, but it's clear enough from watching the pros that one of the
> things that separates them from the rest of us is the ability to make the
> same swing, within milimeters, every time.
>
> I almost envy the players I see on the range who beat ball after ball with
> the same clunky
> swing and same wicked slice -- that guy can get a lesson to correct the
bad
> swing and start hitting it better. When I step up to a ball on the range,
I
> hit most of them pretty straight, but the bad ones are just as likely to
go
> left as right -- Sometimes the swing is a little off in one direction and
> sometimes in another.
>
> I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the
natural
> athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
> sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
> ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time
out.
> For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
> whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do
is
> learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
> same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of
those
> other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example.
The
> pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you
hit
> the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
> the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
> just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a
little
> high and it's skull city.
>
> The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved?
I
> haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
>
> --
> Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery [at] att.net)
> http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
TGM talks of avoiding "downstroke blackout" by practicing "impact fix",
i.e. the dynamic position of your body, hips, legs, arms, hands at impact,
regardless of whether you're using a driver or a putter. Do it every time,
in the sand, in the rough, on the fairway, on the green, to instil in your
mind what the downswing is attempting to achieve. I'm not there yet, not
by a long way, but improvement is beginning to show..
Regards,
Alan
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| Re: The muscle repeat ability limit [message #1033587 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 21:18 |
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The best way to accomplish a feat is to dig in without a thought of
failure, and then accept an outlined method for success.
Unless you have muscle problems, the muscles are going to, with
practice, follow
the mental instruction that they receive, sometimes an attitude
adjustment is in
order, you might check this factor out. It could be rewarding.
When you get it all together, don't forget where you use it. Show no
partiality,
address all features of the swing equally, they act in a synergistic
manner.
This isn't to say that the golfer off the street is scratch material.
The game of golf is made difficult by - defeatism.
As they say, grind it in, and it becomes second nature, be it either an
asset or a liability, it's your choice.
>mho
>v=83e
>drive 10% less,
>don't discover safety by accident
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| Re: The muscle repeat ability limit [message #1033591 ] |
Sa, 20 Mai 2006 22:28 |
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<fiveiron [at] webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27259-446F6B90-1136 [at] storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net...
The best way to accomplish a feat is to dig in without a thought of
failure, and then accept an outlined method for success.
Unless you have muscle problems, the muscles are going to, with
practice, follow
the mental instruction that they receive, sometimes an attitude
adjustment is in
order, you might check this factor out. It could be rewarding.
When you get it all together, don't forget where you use it. Show no
partiality,
address all features of the swing equally, they act in a synergistic
manner.
This isn't to say that the golfer off the street is scratch material.
The game of golf is made difficult by - defeatism.
As they say, grind it in, and it becomes second nature, be it either an
asset or a liability, it's your choice.
>mho
>vfe
>drive 10% less,
>don't discover safety by accident
Does it ever HURT, to be so completely full of shit?
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| Re: The muscle repeat ability limit [message #1033605 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 00:41 |
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Fie Varn wrote:
>Unless you have muscle problems, the
> muscles are going to, with practice,
> follow the mental instruction that they
> receive, sometimes an attitude
> adjustment is in order, you might check
> this factor out. It could be rewarding.
Why not tell us something about which you have unlimited experience.
For example, how you have managed to survive in this world when you have
such obvious mental problems?
Cheers Lee O.
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1033692 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 22:34 |
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On Fri, 19 May 2006 13:59:58 -0500, "warren montgomery"
<wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>The interesting question is whether muscle repeatability can be improved? I
>haven't seen a lot of examples to suggest it.
There are techniques that were designed with the concept that we
aren't as consistent as we would like.
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1034987 ] |
Sa, 27 Mai 2006 00:20 |
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"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> writes:
>I suspect that muscle repeatability is behind the phenomenon of the natural
>athlete -- you know the type, the guy or girl who was a star in some other
>sport in college, never played golf, but 2 weeks after hitting their first
>ball they are shooting in the 70's and collecting your money every time out.
>For whatever reason, these folks can repeat the swing more precisely,
>whether it's with a golf club or a baseball bat, and all they have to do is
>learn how to swing the club and their muscles will cooperate to do it the
>same way every time. I suspect muscle repeatability is behind some of those
>other problems most of us hackers have. Take bunker shots for example. The
>pros say it's easy, because if you can bring the clubhead through so you hit
>the sand an inch behind the ball every time it is, but for the rest of us
>the problem is that the club comes in at a very low angle, so if you are
>just a little low you hit 2 or 3 inches behind and chunk. Come in a little
>high and it's skull city.
You might have something there, but I don't think bunker shots are a good
example. They really are the easiest shots to hit because you have so much
more margin for error. If you have a chip off a tight lie and hit it 1/2"
behind where you are aiming, it may not even make the green. If you hit a
sand shot 1/2" further behind the ball than you were aiming, you probably
won't even notice the difference, and at worst you'll have an extra few feet
of putt left.
--
Douglas Siebert dsiebert [at] excisethis.khamsin.net
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
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| Re: The muscle repeat ability limit [message #1035069 ] |
Sa, 27 Mai 2006 06:45 |
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For: f. [at] OhnoUdont (FY) - etal
the potty-mouth (better known as *Denser* among other things, the stupid
ass) sez,
>Does it ever HURT,
>to be so completely full of shit?
>mho
>v=83e
>drive 10% less, help create a gasoline glut
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1035130 ] |
Sa, 27 Mai 2006 18:29 |
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> You might have something there, but I don't think bunker shots are a good
> example. They really are the easiest shots to hit because you have so
> much
> more margin for error. If you have a chip off a tight lie and hit it 1/2"
> behind where you are aiming, it may not even make the green. If you hit a
> sand shot 1/2" further behind the ball than you were aiming, you probably
> won't even notice the difference, and at worst you'll have an extra few
> feet
> of putt left.
>
You must have a lot more forgiving sand. Hit a half inch farther back in
our bunkers and the club digs and the ball doesn't come out -- and remember,
the error required to hit a half inch back is a lot less than that because
the club is coming in pretty flat, so a small error can produce a hit 2 or 3
inches back. On the other hand when I hit behind a chip, it just bounces
off the baked clay and through the ball. I get a clunky hit that flies less
and runs farther and often makes little difference, and because the stroke
is more a descending blow (for me at least) it takes a bigger error in line
to hit way behind a chip.
--
Warren Montgomery (wamontgomery [at] att.net)
http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery
..
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| Re: The muscle repeatability limit [message #1066633 ] |
Mo, 05 Juni 2006 22:30 |
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"warren montgomery" <wamontgomery [at] worldnet.att.net> writes:
>> You might have something there, but I don't think bunker shots are a good
>> example. They really are the easiest shots to hit because you have so
>> much
>> more margin for error. If you have a chip off a tight lie and hit it 1/2"
>> behind where you are aiming, it may not even make the green. If you hit a
>> sand shot 1/2" further behind the ball than you were aiming, you probably
>> won't even notice the difference, and at worst you'll have an extra few
>> feet
>> of putt left.
>>
>You must have a lot more forgiving sand. Hit a half inch farther back in
>our bunkers and the club digs and the ball doesn't come out -- and remember,
>the error required to hit a half inch back is a lot less than that because
>the club is coming in pretty flat, so a small error can produce a hit 2 or 3
>inches back. On the other hand when I hit behind a chip, it just bounces
>off the baked clay and through the ball. I get a clunky hit that flies less
>and runs farther and often makes little difference, and because the stroke
>is more a descending blow (for me at least) it takes a bigger error in line
>to hit way behind a chip.
Bunker shots are properly hit with a much steeper angle of attack than a
regular shot -- its all wrists and coming way outside to in and cutting
across the ball. So it shouldn't be that much of an issue, if you have
proper technique.
If you are digging that much in your sand you probably need a SW with more
bounce or to open the club more. I've never seen sand anywhere in the US or
outside it that digging too much was a problem. Its always possible to
adjust for it. Sand where you can't dig enough is usually more the problem,
either it is very wet and heavy or the layer of sand in the bunker is so
thin that if you don't hit it just right you'll bounce off the ground under
it. That's a much tougher adjustment and really shrinks the margin for
error.
--
Douglas Siebert dsiebert [at] excisethis.khamsin.net
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
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