| Questions about English rugby [message #983450] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 16:12 |
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Hi, this is for our English friends
I’m French and I’m working on a comparative study of the different
national rugby championships of the main rugby nations. (Guiness
premiership in the case of England)
I’m trying to estimate the importance of the national championship in
each country and to understand how the changes which might have occurred
since rugby became a professional sport were taken, how the fans rate a
win in the national championship compared to a win in the European cup,
how they feel about international tests being held the same day as
premiership games etc… We see in the southern hemisphere but also now in
Ireland or Wales that a continental tournament involving provinces
(Heineken cup or Super 14) have got far more important than national
tournaments (New Zealand’s NPC, south African Currie cup, Irish or welsh
premiership)
For example in France the French championship has a long tradition and
is very important for the players and for the fans. The trophy has
always been awarded after a final, which for decades has been played in
Paris, and the trophy being handed to the winning side by the President
of the Republic, showing how important the event is in the French rugby
season. The Heineken cup is a young tournament and is highly regarded
too, I would say that winning the Heineken cup is now considered equal
to winning the French championship.
I would like to collect as much information as possible about the
English premiership regarding a few things:
- I have read that the English premiership is a very young tournament
(about 15 yrs old). What was there before? I read about regional
championships… Was there an English champion anyway? Considering how
young this tournament is, how do the fans feel about it and felt about
creating that national premiership 15 yrs ago? How is the Heineken cup
regarded? Is a win in one of the two tournaments considered more
important that the other one?
- How do the fans feel about premiership games been played without the
international players? (6 out of 22 this season)
- Why was the powergen cup created and why isn’t iy played during the
international tests instead of playing GP at that time?
I thank you very much in advance for answering all or part of my questions.
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| Re: Questions about English rugby [message #983452 ] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 16:21 |
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Roms wrote:
> Hi, this is for our English friends
> - I have read that the English premiership is a very young tournament
> (about 15 yrs old). What was there before?
There was a John Smith merit table IIRC, this was a bit of a nonsense as
before the league clubs played 'freindlies' and the cup.
> I read about regional championships… Was there an English champion anyway?
No - hardly anyone took any notice of the merit table and I beleive it
disappeared before the league anyway.
> Considering how > young this tournament is, how do the fans feel about it and felt about
> creating that national premiership 15 yrs ago?
Some of the old fuddy duddies huffed and puffed but certainly here in
Leicester it was generally well rec'd. At that time there was only one
fixture against each of the teams (not home AND away as now) and only
one knockout cup comp so it still left pleanty of room for traditional
fixtures. The teams in the league were also teams Leicester played in
freindly matches. Leicester won the first league.
> How is the Heineken cup regarded?
Well rec'd in general by the fans but it created a fixture pileup.
> Is a win in one of the two tournaments considered more important that the other one?
I would rather win the HC than the prem but not by mutch.
> - How do the fans feel about premiership games been played without
> the international players? (6 out of 22 this season)
Inevitable but regretable. Teams that employ a lot of english players
(Leicester/wasps) suffer the worst. Approx 5 seasons ago they
experimented by inc the points post int.season.
> - Why was the powergen cup created and why isn’t iy played during the
> international tests instead of playing GP at that time?
The powergen is the latest incarnation of the original cup knockout comp
played for for
odd years.
Mike
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| Re: Questions about English rugby [message #983456 ] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 17:23 |
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Mike wrote:
> Roms wrote:
> > Hi, this is for our English friends
>
> > - I have read that the English premiership is a very young tournament
> > (about 15 yrs old). What was there before?
>
> There was a John Smith merit table IIRC, this was a bit of a nonsense as
> before the league clubs played 'freindlies' and the cup.
>
> > I read about regional championships... Was there an English champion anyway?
>
> No - hardly anyone took any notice of the merit table and I beleive it
> disappeared before the league anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Premiership#
League dates back to 1987.
>
> > Considering how > young this tournament is, how do the fans feel about it and felt about
> > creating that national premiership 15 yrs ago?
>
> Some of the old fuddy duddies huffed and puffed but certainly here in
> Leicester it was generally well rec'd. At that time there was only one
> fixture against each of the teams (not home AND away as now) and only
> one knockout cup comp so it still left pleanty of room for traditional
> fixtures. The teams in the league were also teams Leicester played in
> freindly matches. Leicester won the first league.
>
> > How is the Heineken cup regarded?
>
> Well rec'd in general by the fans but it created a fixture pileup.
>
> > Is a win in one of the two tournaments considered more important that the other one?
>
> I would rather win the HC than the prem but not by mutch.
Agreed.
>
> > - How do the fans feel about premiership games been played without
> > the international players? (6 out of 22 this season)
>
> Inevitable but regretable. Teams that employ a lot of english players
> (Leicester/wasps) suffer the worst. Approx 5 seasons ago they
> experimented by inc the points post int.season.
I think the knockout for the top 4 teams in the league helps the
situation although admit I would still be gutted to finish top of the
league and then lose in the knockout. Although it has the potential to
discourage clubs from developing homegrown talent (isn't too bad at the
top clubs to date) the flip side is that it gives younger players the
chance to shine while the internationals are away so builds depth.
>
> > - Why was the powergen cup created and why isn't iy played during the
> > international tests instead of playing GP at that time?
>
> The powergen is the latest incarnation of the original cup knockout comp
> played for for
> odd years.
>
>
> Mike
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| Re: Questions about English rugby [message #983457 ] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 17:25 |
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In article <445222b1$0$8433$626a54ce [at] news.free.fr>, Roms <roms [at] roms.fr>
wrote:
<<stuff deleted>>
> I have read that the English premiership is a very young tournament
> (about 15 yrs old).
The league championship for clubs began only in 1987 (it was known as
the Courage League). From the mid-80's there was a "merit table" from
the results of the fixtures between the major clubs (with the winner the
team with the highest percentage of wins, I think), but no organized
fixture list.
> What was there before? I read about regional
> championshipsŠ Was there an English champion anyway?
There had been a national knock-out cup for clubs that started in 1972
(which is now known as the Powergen Cup).
Regional representative rugby began way back with the county
championship which was first in 1889 (although the two dominant early
counties, Yorkshire and Lancashire had already been playing each other
before that) -- participation in this by the top club players has always
varied, and none play in it now.
Back in the early 1990s England also tried a divisional championship,
based on the regional sides that had previously been pulled together to
play touring sides (North, Midlands, South & Southwest, London), but it
only lasted a few years.
Cheers,
Ben
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