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Sports » uk.sport.golf » foot print in bunker
| foot print in bunker [message #982830] |
Sun, 23 April 2006 19:59 |
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played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no problem
well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
relief ?
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982831 ] |
Sun, 23 April 2006 20:04 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982854 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 07:35 |
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"R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
> "Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
>> problem
>> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
>> relief ?
>
> Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
> stroke.
>
I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a year,
but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same situation?
david
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982856 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 07:46 |
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David Amos wrote:
> "R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
>
>>"Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>
>>>played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
>>>problem
>>>well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
>>>relief ?
>>
>>Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
>>stroke.
>>
>
>
> I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a year,
> but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
>
> oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same situation?
>
>
> david
>
>
Equity? What equity....the bunker is hazard...why should you have free
relief when you shouldn't even be there?
cheers
david
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982858 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 10:34 |
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"David Amos" <david.amos57 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:QED3g.61580$Nh7.42882 [at] newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
>> "Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
>>> problem
>>> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i
>>> take
>>> relief ?
>>
>> Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
>> stroke.
>>
>
> I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a
> year,
> but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
>
> oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same
> situation?
>
> david
<sanctimonious mode on>
The essence of golf is the necessity to take the
rough with the the smooth: the bad bounce, in
the end is always balanced by the the good
bounce and it is the ability to take the long view,
that luck will always even out in the end which
makes golf a test of both intelligence and character.
This was the the lesson that Bobby Jones learned
at St Andrews, for which he was always grateful
and helped him become the great champion that he
was.
<sanctimonious mode off>
Alan :-)
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982859 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 11:15 |
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"David Amos" <david.amos57 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:QED3g.61580$Nh7.42882 [at] newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
>> "Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
>>> problem
>>> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
>>> relief ?
>>
>> Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
>> stroke.
>>
>
> I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a year,
> but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
>
> oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same situation?
>
>
> david
Etiquette requires that we smooth the sand in bunkers after playing and the
game currently is played from the prospective of bunkers being smoothly
raked sand but I heard someone the other day seriously suggest that since
bunkers are placed where they are to be hazards, apart from weeding them,
the game would be improved if they were left as they are - footprints,
rain-washed and all.
Go in a hazard and pay the penalty.
I think it is an interesting idea.
Meanwhile: no relief from footprints, sandcastles built by children
(33-8/9), loose impediments (23-1), casual water (33-8/27) or the ball being
embedded in wet sand when dropped (33-8/28)
Malcolm
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982860 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 12:58 |
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David Amos wrote:
> "R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
> > "Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
> >
> >> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
> >> problem
> >> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
> >> relief ?
> >
> > Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
> > stroke.
> >
>
> I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a year,
> but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
Equity fits into this in that if I find my ball in a footprint in a
bunker next week, I have exactly the same options as Thomopac had.
>
> oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same situation?
>
He is treated no differently than other golfers when it comes to the
rules, so what furore do you imagine?
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982872 ] |
Wed, 26 April 2006 23:30 |
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"David Amos" <david.amos57 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:QED3g.61580$Nh7.42882 [at] newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "R.V. Kint" <rvkint [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com...
>> "Thomopac" <thomopac [at] thomopac.karoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no
>>> problem
>>> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
>>> relief ?
>>
>> Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
>> stroke.
>>
>
> I know that this is the rule, and I know it has been thus for many a year,
> but where, pray, does 'equity' fit into this?
>
> oh, and can you imagine the furore if Tiger arrived in the same situation?
>
>
> david
Equity, as a concept in the Rules, is intended to be used in those
situations where there is a dispute over any point not covered by the Rules.
As there is no dispute about the footprint being covered in the Rules,
there is no reason for equity to be used.
Cheers
John T
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982874 ] |
Thu, 27 April 2006 00:41 |
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Malcolm Wadsworth wrote:
>
<snipped>
>"......but I heard someone the other day seriously suggest that since
> bunkers are placed where they are to be hazards, apart from weeding them,
> the game would be improved if they were left as they are - footprints,
> rain-washed and all.
> Go in a hazard and pay the penalty......"
Five times 'Open' winner and successful 'links style' course designer,
Peter Thomson, is a regular proponent of and strong advocate for this
point of view.
cheers
david
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982879 ] |
Thu, 27 April 2006 08:01 |
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R.V. Kint in <barvet0np7n.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com>:
>> played medal today on the second hole i hit my shot into bunker no problem
>> well yes there was i was in foot print about 3 inches deep, could i take
>> relief ?
>
>Of course, that's what Rule 28 is for. The price is one penalty
>stroke.
Agreed, but would it differ if the foot print were a hole made by a
greenkeeper's foot? (?ground in repair?)
It is not likely to happen in a tournament, but on a private round I once
came across several bunkers with many foot prints in the sand along the
fringe. I was told that the greenkeepers had been working on the lips
and had not yet smoothed their traces.
Would this alter the ruling?
Ciao,
Paul
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982881 ] |
Thu, 27 April 2006 13:06 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982882 ] |
Thu, 27 April 2006 19:11 |
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R.V. Kint in <bar7j5b9t1i.fsf [at] server007.serverquality.com>:
>A greenkeeper's footprint is not a hole made by a greenkeeper
>(nor is the tire rut made by his tractor -- Decision 25/16).
So, only the holes made intentiously by the greenkeeper are covered by
the rule, i.e. those those dug for work purpose or those for water boundary
stakes, and not the traces he or his equipment leave on the course.
Thank you.
Paul
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982899 ] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 20:26 |
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I note all the responses about the rules, and various decisions. Maybe my
use of the word equity is inappropriate here.....but consider.........
The greenkeeping staff prepare the course in their normal meticulous way for
the monthly medal. Greens are swept of dew and sand; holes are neatly cut;
greens perfectly rolled....
But the membership of "Nobs n Toffs GC" have no interest in etiquette and
repair no pitch marks, tamp down no spike marks, and worst of all they don't
bother to rake bunkers.....
Is this competition played on equal terms for all competitors?
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982900 ] |
Fri, 28 April 2006 20:41 |
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"David Amos" <david.amos57 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:b7t4g.4629$E52.1854 [at] newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>I note all the responses about the rules, and various decisions. Maybe my
>use of the word equity is inappropriate here.....but consider.........
>
> The greenkeeping staff prepare the course in their normal meticulous way
> for the monthly medal. Greens are swept of dew and sand; holes are neatly
> cut; greens perfectly rolled....
> But the membership of "Nobs n Toffs GC" have no interest in etiquette and
> repair no pitch marks, tamp down no spike marks, and worst of all they
> don't bother to rake bunkers.....
> Is this competition played on equal terms for all competitors?
No, someone has left a size ten boot print in the sand and your ball has
landed in it, yes i deserve a harder shot as i am in a hazard but it has not
been raked.
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982904 ] |
Sat, 29 April 2006 10:17 |
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"David Amos" <david.amos57 [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:b7t4g.4629$E52.1854 [at] newsfe6-win.ntli.net:
> I note all the responses about the rules, and various decisions. Maybe
> my use of the word equity is inappropriate here.....but
> consider.........
>
> The greenkeeping staff prepare the course in their normal meticulous
> way for the monthly medal. Greens are swept of dew and sand; holes are
> neatly cut; greens perfectly rolled....
> But the membership of "Nobs n Toffs GC" have no interest in etiquette
> and repair no pitch marks, tamp down no spike marks, and worst of all
> they don't bother to rake bunkers.....
Strange that you say Nobs and Toffs - I find that on the course I play
most regularly, the lack of etiquette is evident across many social
strata - but in my experience Chavs'r'us GC and White Van R&A( Roaring
and Asinine) seem to be the worst offenders, along with really
dreadfully hungover football fans picking 0607 Tee time...
Agreed, etiquette is simply the most important part of golf; and in
private clubs, one has censure. But pay and play courses really could
and should issue booklets about "How To Do Golf" and enforce the reading
thereof!!
Nige
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982905 ] |
Sat, 29 April 2006 17:43 |
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"Nigel B" <nigel.bourne [at] by> wrote in message
news:Xns97B45E77140B9here [at] 194.117.143.38...
> Agreed, etiquette is simply the most important part of golf; and in
> private clubs, one has censure. But pay and play courses really could
> and should issue booklets about "How To Do Golf" and enforce the
> reading thereof!!
>
> Nige
Etiquette is an important part of golf but certainly not
the most important part. Strict adherence to the rules
is surely the most important part by far. And in adhering
to the rules etiquette is in the most part observed.
Alan
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982906 ] |
Sat, 29 April 2006 21:08 |
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Nigel B wrote:
> Strange that you say Nobs and Toffs - I find that on the course I play
> most regularly, the lack of etiquette is evident across many social
> strata - but in my experience Chavs'r'us GC and White Van R&A( Roaring
> and Asinine) seem to be the worst offenders, along with really
> dreadfully hungover football fans picking 0607 Tee time...
>
> Agreed, etiquette is simply the most important part of golf; and in
> private clubs, one has censure. But pay and play courses really could
> and should issue booklets about "How To Do Golf" and enforce the reading
> thereof!!
>
> Nige
Can't agree more on the issue of etiquette. It has gone down a lot in recent
years. The "general purpose sports fan" (a legitimate media term here) is
the worst offender. They don't seem to care about the sport, just about
"being a fan!". Drink beer, "hoot and holler", "golf" and to heck with
everyone else!
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982907 ] |
Sun, 30 April 2006 07:00 |
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"Alan Murphy" <afmccl [at] btinternet.com> wrote in news:Xt-
dncS3xqA5FM7ZRVny0Q [at] bt.com:
> Etiquette is an important part of golf but certainly not
> the most important part. Strict adherence to the rules
> is surely the most important part by far. And in adhering
> to the rules etiquette is in the most part observed.
>
> Alan
>
Golf played contrary to the rules only serves to bring disqualification
to the individual or team in club competition. But far more non-
competition, non-club golf is played on pay and play and it is in those
circumstances that etitquette is - IMHO - the most important part. It
matters not a whit to me if J Doe, playing with his mates for a fiver,
kicks his ball a foot nearer the pin; that's between him, his conscience
and his chums. But if he slams a ball into the back of my head because
he is impatient to see the football match(it happened, I sued!) or yells
"Come on, you little motherf****r, gerrin the f***in' 'ole!" from the
12th so I can hear it 6 holes away; or drives his buggy in "doughnuts"
on the fringe of the 3rd; or stomps in in spikes in the bar with a "Four
lagers, darlin double quick and come on you Reds", then etiquette has,
without doubt just become the most important part of golf.
Nige
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982908 ] |
Sun, 30 April 2006 08:16 |
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"Nigel B" <nigel.bourne [at] by> wrote in message
news:Xns97B53D0CD9308here [at] 194.117.143.37...
> "Alan Murphy" <afmccl [at] btinternet.com> wrote in news:Xt-
> dncS3xqA5FM7ZRVny0Q [at] bt.com:
>
>> Etiquette is an important part of golf but certainly not
>> the most important part. Strict adherence to the rules
>> is surely the most important part by far. And in adhering
>> to the rules etiquette is in the most part observed.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>
> Golf played contrary to the rules only serves to bring disqualification
> to the individual or team in club competition. But far more non-
> competition, non-club golf is played on pay and play and it is in those
> circumstances that etitquette is - IMHO - the most important part. It
> matters not a whit to me if J Doe, playing with his mates for a fiver,
> kicks his ball a foot nearer the pin; that's between him, his conscience
> and his chums. But if he slams a ball into the back of my head because
> he is impatient to see the football match(it happened, I sued!) or yells
> "Come on, you little motherf****r, gerrin the f***in' 'ole!" from the
> 12th so I can hear it 6 holes away; or drives his buggy in "doughnuts"
> on the fringe of the 3rd; or stomps in in spikes in the bar with a "Four
> lagers, darlin double quick and come on you Reds", then etiquette has,
> without doubt just become the most important part of golf.
>
> Nige
A serious need for marshal's.
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982909 ] |
Sun, 30 April 2006 12:57 |
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Thomopac wrote:
> "Nigel B" <nigel.bourne [at] by> wrote in message
> news:Xns97B53D0CD9308here [at] 194.117.143.37...
>
>>"Alan Murphy" <afmccl [at] btinternet.com> wrote in news:Xt-
>>dncS3xqA5FM7ZRVny0Q [at] bt.com:
>>
>>
>>>Etiquette is an important part of golf but certainly not
>>>the most important part. Strict adherence to the rules
>>>is surely the most important part by far. And in adhering
>>>to the rules etiquette is in the most part observed.
>>>
>>>Alan
>>>
>>
>>Golf played contrary to the rules only serves to bring disqualification
>>to the individual or team in club competition. But far more non-
>>competition, non-club golf is played on pay and play and it is in those
>>circumstances that etitquette is - IMHO - the most important part. It
>>matters not a whit to me if J Doe, playing with his mates for a fiver,
>>kicks his ball a foot nearer the pin; that's between him, his conscience
>>and his chums. But if he slams a ball into the back of my head because
>>he is impatient to see the football match(it happened, I sued!) or yells
>>"Come on, you little motherf****r, gerrin the f***in' 'ole!" from the
>>12th so I can hear it 6 holes away; or drives his buggy in "doughnuts"
>>on the fringe of the 3rd; or stomps in in spikes in the bar with a "Four
>>lagers, darlin double quick and come on you Reds", then etiquette has,
>>without doubt just become the most important part of golf.
>>
>>Nige
>
> A serious need for marshal's.
But only if the course encourages the Marshals to enforce pace of play
and etiquette.
Most pay and play and upmarket CCFAD's (Country Club for a Day) don't
want to upset their paying customers with such niceties fearing that
they will not return. What these courses forget and take for granted is
the business and patronage of the more serious golfer, who is upset at
the pace and lack of etiquette.
It is the more serious golfer who will not return, leaving more room for
the lout and boor to play.
David
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| Re: foot print in bunker [message #982912 ] |
Sun, 30 April 2006 19:33 |
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David Sneddon <nospam [at] nospam.net> wrote in news:4bjjh3F11mtn8U1
[at] individual.net:
>
> It is the more serious golfer who will not return, leaving more room for
> the lout and boor to play.
>
> David
>
Which is why I am a volunteer marshall and starter - I try to gently
enforce better behaviour among those to whom it is alien, and encourage it
in others. I also talk to players (at appropriate moments!) out on the
course to find out if there are any problems; if there are, I and my fellow
marshals try to resolve them.
Come on chaps - volunteer! I did, and have never regretted a moment!
NB
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