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Sports » rec.running » Hip pain
| Hip pain [message #971105] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 23:45 |
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Hello!
I am not looking for medical advice - but any advice would be welcome.
This post is in regard to my wife - Female - 39 - 9st10oz (61kg).
She has been running for 18 months or so. In Janauary did a 10 mile
run in 1hr28m. We were doing about 20 miles a week.
She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
pro!)
But pain still around :(
She has rested for 2 weeks and really cut down mileage (perhap 3+4
miles a week from 5+5+6+8).
Pain seems to start at around 3.5 miles. Starts on outer side of right
leg about 3" down from knee cap. Then goes straight to hip. both bits
hurt together, nothing inbetween. When she does the ITB (??) stretch -
she says thats where the pain is. New shoes are very fitted - the
original new ones were loose in the width which may have caused the
issue. The old new shoes were bought at start of feb, new new start of
april. She has support shoes where they have extra support on outside.
She is stretching ITB numerous times daily. She is strengthening
quads.
But she is getting very frustraited. :(
We have not see physio (lost faith a while ago).
Any ideas welcome. Plan to go to doctors end April if hasn't healed -
but any ideas most most welcome
Thanks in advance!!!!
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971107 ] |
Mi, 12 April 2006 23:57 |
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<ryanjjones [at] mail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I am not looking for medical advice - but any advice would be welcome.
>
> This post is in regard to my wife - Female - 39 - 9st10oz (61kg).
>
> She has been running for 18 months or so. In Janauary did a 10 mile
> run in 1hr28m. We were doing about 20 miles a week.
>
> She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
> and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
> fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
> another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
> pro!)
>
> But pain still around :(
>
> She has rested for 2 weeks and really cut down mileage (perhap 3+4
> miles a week from 5+5+6+8).
>
> Pain seems to start at around 3.5 miles. Starts on outer side of right
> leg about 3" down from knee cap. Then goes straight to hip. both bits
> hurt together, nothing inbetween. When she does the ITB (??) stretch -
> she says thats where the pain is. New shoes are very fitted - the
> original new ones were loose in the width which may have caused the
> issue. The old new shoes were bought at start of feb, new new start of
> april. She has support shoes where they have extra support on outside.
>
> She is stretching ITB numerous times daily. She is strengthening
> quads.
>
> But she is getting very frustraited. :(
>
> We have not see physio (lost faith a while ago).
I have great faith in Physios, they have put me back on many occasions.
> Any ideas welcome. Plan to go to doctors end April if hasn't healed -
> but any ideas most most welcome
Hmm, pain in two disconnected places, this suggests a nerve involvement
to me and the ITB stretches helping might do that too. Stretch
hamstrings and do abdominal muscle strengthening as well, this will
relieve any strain and support the lower back.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971110 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 01:05 |
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On 12 Apr 2006 14:45:12 -0700, ryanjjones [at] mail.com wrote:
>She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
>and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
>fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
>another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
>pro!)
>
>But pain still around :(
Your "pros" are assholes, find a new one.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971111 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 01:53 |
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Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:57:16
<1hdpe9v.1c6na491tktireN%pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk> uk.rec.running Peter
Ashby <pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk>
[snipped but read]
>> She is stretching ITB numerous times daily. She is strengthening
>> quads.
and twisting her lower spine unless she is *very* mobile / flexible.
>> But she is getting very frustraited. :(
>>
>> We have not see physio (lost faith a while ago).
>
>I have great faith in Physios, they have put me back on many occasions.
ditto, and Peter mentioned back.
>> Any ideas welcome. Plan to go to doctors end April if hasn't healed -
>> but any ideas most most welcome
>
>Hmm, pain in two disconnected places, this suggests a nerve involvement
>to me
yes
> and the ITB stretches helping might do that too. Stretch
>hamstrings and do abdominal muscle strengthening as well, this will
>relieve any strain and support the lower back.
I think Peter and I are both thinking this might be a back problem and
the feeling in the leg is a symptom.
Balancing the "running" muscle groups with their opposing ones (eg
abdominal vs lower back is one of them, squats exercise the front bit of
the thigh that running may not, etc) may help.
--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971113 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 03:10 |
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On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:05:20 -0400, McPervert [at] pervs.net wrote:
>On 12 Apr 2006 14:45:12 -0700, ryanjjones [at] mail.com wrote:
>
>>She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
>>and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
>>fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
>>another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
>>pro!)
>>
>>But pain still around :(
It never ceases to amze me how people think stretching is the cure for
everything. $100 says she isn't stretching properly, probably bounces,
and doesn't hold it for a minimum of 40 seconds.
Stop the stretching. Thank me in a couple weeks when the pain goes
away.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971116 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 11:55 |
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<tbr [at] tbrrulz.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:05:20 -0400, McPervert [at] pervs.net wrote:
>
> >On 12 Apr 2006 14:45:12 -0700, ryanjjones [at] mail.com wrote:
> >
> >>She had slight achillies pain. Her shoes were knackered (15 months old
> >>and well worn). She bought new shoes (professionally fitted) - and
> >>fairly quickly started to get hip pain. She has rested and bought
> >>another pair from another shop (professionally fitted - but by a better
> >>pro!)
> >>
> >>But pain still around :(
>
> It never ceases to amze me how people think stretching is the cure for
> everything. $100 says she isn't stretching properly, probably bounces,
> and doesn't hold it for a minimum of 40 seconds.
> Stop the stretching. Thank me in a couple weeks when the pain goes
> away.
That is a sweeping statement that takes no account of individual
variation. Studies on the efficacy or otherwise of stretching take no
account of individual variation, they are a fairly blunt tool. If I do
not stretch at least my calves and hamstrings then I become too tight to
function and risk pulling those muscles and straining other things, like
my back. This applies to walking around in normal life as well as
running, though running accelerates the process. I have always been like
this and have always found that regular, pre run stretching is the cure.
If I attempt to stretch post run when I am warm I can rarely get a
stretch.
I do not claim that my situtation is common to everyone, I know people
who never stretch and have no problems, I know people like myself and
others in the middle. In addition someone who has never had to stretch
may find that age or a change in activity make it necessary, acutely or
chronically.
Similarly there are a multitude of attitudes to how to stretch. I think
part of the confusion is between stretching cold and warm. If I bounced
while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
not at all sure that would be true while warm. So again there is more to
take into account than simplicity suggests.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971120 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 13:28 |
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
> If I bounced
>while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
>not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971123 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 14:54 |
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ryanjjones wrote:
> Pain seems to start at around 3.5 miles. Starts on outer side of right
> leg about 3" down from knee cap. Then goes straight to hip. both bits
> hurt together, nothing inbetween.
OK, that sound exactly like ITBS. The below-the-knee pain is the ITB
rubbing against the epicondyle or whatever it's called, the hip is the TFL
(tensor fascia latae), the muscle at the end of the ITB.
I've dealt with this a few cycles of this and in the process have read quite
a bit too.
Different people seem to get relief from different things, a combination for
many of us.
Aside from ITB (TFL) stretches (which I continue to this day, even when I'm
not suffering from ITBS), things which have helped me include:
- rolling the ITB and the quads, first on a foam roller, progressing to a
length of PVC pipe
- massage
- avoiding downhills, especially running fast on paved downhills
- strengthening exercises like side leg lifts, though I was never consistent
enough with these to say how much they helped
There's tons of info on the web, in rec.running archives (google especially
Ozzie Gontang and ITB or ITBS), letsrun.com, etc. You'll have no problem
finding testimonials and suggestions of things to try.
> New shoes are very fitted - the original new ones were loose in the
> width which may have caused the issue. The old new shoes were bought
> at start of feb, new new start of april. She has support shoes where
> they have extra support on outside.
This is purely speculative but I've seen a few references to people blaming
shoes which are *too* "supportive" for ITBS. Somehow that strikes me as
intuitively plausible and consistent with my experience.
Best of luck, ITBS really sucks.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971127 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 15:58 |
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Do you control the rest of her life like this too?
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971128 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 17:49 |
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tbr [at] tbr.nettt wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
>
>>If I bounced
>>while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
>>not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
>
>
> Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
> injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
> sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
> jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
> everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
> slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
The secret of stretching is to do it after you are warmed up. And know
what you are doing.
However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with. Hollobird
is a great mail order company when you know what you want.
I would also suggest taking a little time off. When I'm hurt I swim, as
that is a great rehab exercise.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971141 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 23:17 |
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<tbr [at] tbr.nettt> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> > If I bounced
> >while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
> >not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
>
> Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
> injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
> sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
> jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
> everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
> slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971142 ] |
Do, 13 April 2006 23:23 |
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Beach Runner <bob [at] nospam.com> wrote:
> tbr [at] tbr.nettt wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> > Ashby) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>If I bounced
> >>while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
> >>not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
> >
> >
> > Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
> > injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
> > sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
> > jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
> > everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
> > slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
>
> The secret of stretching is to do it after you are warmed up. And know
> what you are doing.
>
> However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
> to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with. Hollobird
> is a great mail order company when you know what you want.
It is entirely possible that for eg she has legs of slightly different
length (goes with handedness) and her old shoes wore to accommodate
this. The new shoes are not so worn so are causing problems. When I
started running I pulled a muscle inside my left hip (my left leg is
shorter than my right) which took some time to heal but which I have
never suffered from again. One possibility is to try a small heel lift
in the non-dominant leg.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971147 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 00:00 |
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:49:24 GMT, Beach Runner <bob [at] nospam.com> wrote:
>However, this started after she switched shoes. The most logical thing
>to do is to find the same pair of shoes she had success with.
Oh no, that can't be, they were "fitted by a professional".
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971153 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 00:15 |
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:17:57 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
><tbr [at] tbr.nettt> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
>> Ashby) wrote:
>>
>> > If I bounced
>> >while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
>> >not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
>>
>> Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
>> injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
>> sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
>> jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
>> everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
>> slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
>
>Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
>post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
>this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.
>
>Peter
No Peter, I snipped the part I was not responding too. You have a deep
misunderstanding of stretching. I run 9 miles a day for over 20 years
with no injurys SINCE I quit stretching.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971154 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 00:18 |
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On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:23:21 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
>It is entirely possible that for eg she has legs of slightly different
>length
<SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEECH> You really need to give us the whole picture
before asking for advice. This is a spinal misalignment issue. The
only exception would be if her legs have been that way since birth, a
very rare occurence. Find a good, qualified chiropractor that has been
in biz at least 20 years.
Any other questions?
You're welcome
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971169 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 09:48 |
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<trb [at] tbr.nett> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:17:57 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> ><tbr [at] tbr.nettt> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:55:47 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> >> Ashby) wrote:
> >>
> >> > If I bounced
> >> >while stretching cold I would almost certainly pull something, but I'm
> >> >not at all sure that would be true while warm. So
> >>
> >> Like I said, your ignorance is holding you back. Stretching causes
> >> injurys, and I've got over 20 without one, due to NOT stretching. I'm
> >> sorry, but if you think bouncing is appropriate anytime, you know
> >> jackshit about stretching. Stop stretching, give it several weeks for
> >> everything to get back to normal, and do a proper warmup (walk, or run
> >> slowly) and your injurys will be far and few between.
> >
> >Since you have obviously failed to read and understand the rest of my
> >post, which you snipped, I see little point in continuing to discuss
> >this with you since your mind appears to be closed on the issue.
> >
> >Peter
>
> No Peter, I snipped the part I was not responding too. You have a deep
> misunderstanding of stretching. I run 9 miles a day for over 20 years
> with no injurys SINCE I quit stretching.
And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
are unhelpful. What about those two points are too hard for you
understand?
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971179 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 11:48 |
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
>And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
>included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
>are unhelpful.
I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
but not the average person.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971181 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 13:19 |
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McPervert [at] pervs.net wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
>>And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
>>included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
>>are unhelpful.
>
> I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
> stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
> but not the average person.
Then I'm not an average person. But what do I know I have only raced since
1979??
martin
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971184 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 14:32 |
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:19:11 +0200, Roeret <martin.rordam [at] email.dk>
wrote:
>Then I'm not an average person. But what do I know I have only raced since
>1979??
>martin
Ok, I grant you that you aren't average. AAMOF I have never met an
average guy.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971187 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 14:42 |
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<McPervert [at] pervs.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:48:05 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> >And I wrote that my experience is that I get injured if I do not. I also
> >included a point that people are different and dogmatic generalisations
> >are unhelpful.
>
> I agree, however I see about 90% of runners have no clue how to
> stretch properly, I see it daily. Stretching might help an 80YO man,
> but not the average person.
Okay enough generalisation. Unless and until you can cite a study which
proves the above assertion I shall assume you are talking out of the
orifice between your gluteal muscles.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971197 ] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 21:24 |
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:42:39 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
>Okay enough generalisation. Unless and until you can cite a study which
>proves the above assertion I shall assume you are talking out of the
>orifice between your gluteal muscles.
Do your own googeling, I ain't your bitch. I did not cite or quote any
"studys", I simply told you my observations.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971223 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 12:17 |
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<macdogg [at] earthlink.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:42:39 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> >Okay enough generalisation. Unless and until you can cite a study which
> >proves the above assertion I shall assume you are talking out of the
> >orifice between your gluteal muscles.
>
> Do your own googeling, I ain't your bitch. I did not cite or quote any
> "studys", I simply told you my observations.
Anecdotes do not a convincing case make, neither do your 'observations'
trump mine without a formal, controlled study. So unless you can cite
that to back up your assertions then they carry no possible weight. I
offer my own simply to document that your assertions of generality are
true. I make no claim for them beyond that.
As for me looking for the studies, I am not the one making the claims.
You are that person and it is now time for you to put up or shut up.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971227 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 12:38 |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:17:33 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
Ashby) wrote:
>Anecdotes do not a convincing case make, neither do your 'observations'
>trump mine without a formal, controlled study. So unless you can cite
>that to back up your assertions then they carry no possible weight. I
>offer my own simply to document that your assertions of generality are
>true. I make no claim for them beyond that.
>
>As for me looking for the studies, I am not the one making the claims.
>You are that person and it is now time for you to put up or shut up.
Look you fucking buttfucker, I never mentioned studys, you did. So if
you want them, go fucking look for them. When you go to a place like
the reservoir where I run, and see 9 out of 10 imbeciles bouncing, and
not holding it for 40 seconds, this says it all. Get a magnifying
glass, and study your 2" pecker.
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971235 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 19:11 |
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<Macdog [at] earthlink.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:17:33 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> >Anecdotes do not a convincing case make, neither do your 'observations'
> >trump mine without a formal, controlled study. So unless you can cite
> >that to back up your assertions then they carry no possible weight. I
> >offer my own simply to document that your assertions of generality are
> >true. I make no claim for them beyond that.
> >
> >As for me looking for the studies, I am not the one making the claims.
> >You are that person and it is now time for you to put up or shut up.
>
> Look you fucking buttfucker, I never mentioned studys, you did. So if
> you want them, go fucking look for them. When you go to a place like
> the reservoir where I run, and see 9 out of 10 imbeciles bouncing, and
> not holding it for 40 seconds, this says it all. Get a magnifying
> glass, and study your 2" pecker.
I asked you for a study to back up your assertions. Since you are both
unwilling and apparently unable to produce one and have turned to
personal abuse in an attempt to cover up your manifest inadequecies you
have obviously lost the argument.
Now if you wish to continue to display your lack of reason and childish
tendencies that is your problem. I wash my hands of you.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971236 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 19:17 |
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Pashbythebuttfucker [at] blueyonder.co.ruk wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:17:33 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
> Ashby) wrote:
>
> >Anecdotes do not a convincing case make, neither do your 'observations'
> >trump mine without a formal, controlled study. So unless you can cite
> >that to back up your assertions then they carry no possible weight. I
> >offer my own simply to document that your assertions of generality are
> >true. I make no claim for them beyond that.
> >
> >As for me looking for the studies, I am not the one making the claims.
> >You are that person and it is now time for you to put up or shut up.
>
> Look you fucking buttfucker, I never mentioned studys, you did. So if
> you want them, go fucking look for them. When you go to a place like
> the reservoir where I run, and see 9 out of 10 imbeciles bouncing, and
> not holding it for 40 seconds, this says it all. Get a magnifying
> glass, and study your 2" pecker.
ooh I love it when a debate becomes sophisticated and intelectual
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971238 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 19:57 |
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Peter Ashby wrote:
> <Macdog [at] earthlink.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:17:33 GMT, pashby [at] blueyonder.co.ruk (Peter
>> Ashby) wrote:
>>
>> >Anecdotes do not a convincing case make, neither do your 'observations'
>> >trump mine without a formal, controlled study. So unless you can cite
>> >that to back up your assertions then they carry no possible weight. I
>> >offer my own simply to document that your assertions of generality are
>> >true. I make no claim for them beyond that.
>> >
>> >As for me looking for the studies, I am not the one making the claims.
>> >You are that person and it is now time for you to put up or shut up.
>>
>> Look you fucking buttfucker, I never mentioned studys, you did. So if
>> you want them, go fucking look for them. When you go to a place like
>> the reservoir where I run, and see 9 out of 10 imbeciles bouncing, and
>> not holding it for 40 seconds, this says it all. Get a magnifying
>> glass, and study your 2" pecker.
>
> I asked you for a study to back up your assertions. Since you are both
> unwilling and apparently unable to produce one and have turned to
> personal abuse in an attempt to cover up your manifest inadequecies you
> have obviously lost the argument.
>
> Now if you wish to continue to display your lack of reason and childish
> tendencies that is your problem. I wash my hands of you.
>
Touché Peter!!! :-)
> Peter
> --
> Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| Re: Hip pain [message #971243 ] |
Sa, 15 April 2006 23:18 |
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:57:50 +0200, Roeret <martin.rordam [at] email.dk>
wrote:
>Touché Peter!!! :-)
Did you stick him in the pooper?
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