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Sports » rec.running » Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs
| Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864312] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 19:34 |
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Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k
Location: Rockmart Georgia
Date/Time: Saturday, February 25, 2006, 7:30 AM
Weather: Rain, 45° F, 92% humidity, calm winds
Web Site: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/e-scur.html
There aren't that many ultras in Georgia, so this was too convenient to
pass up and it fits nicely into my training plan. The start is in
Rockmart, which is about 75 miles west of my home. The purpose of doing
this event was to run an "easy" four to five hour run to prepare for an
upcoming 50-miler. So I didn't race this event (as if I could actually
"race" an ultra). All miles except the last one were run at an easy
pace. I stopped at all but the last aid station.
This was my second 50k. The 2 races were very different. The other 50K
(Dizzy Fifties) that I did was last November. It involved lots of hilly
terrain on dirt trails. I fell numerous times during that race. The
Silver Comet Ultra is run entirely on a flat and wide paved trail. The
Silver Comet Trail (http://tinyurl.com/esp4p) is a 60 mile-long,
converted rail-trail going from Smyrna, about 15 miles Northwest of
Atlanta, to the Georgia-Alabama state line. You are probably not going
to find a trail in Georgia that is more flat than this one. The course
(http://tinyurl.com/k9fpr) rises 300 feet fromt the start to about the
10K mark. This is just under a 1% grade, which is almost imperceptible.
The paved path also has a dirt/grass bridal path that runs adjacent to
the asphalt. I ran on this as much as I could. Since it rained for the
entire event, there were some sections that were too wet or muddy, but
for the most part this was a welcome relief from the hardness of the
pavement. There were 3 aid stations along the course - 8k, 18k, and the
25k turnaround. The volunteers were most excellent. They treated my like
the Sultan of Um-papa Mau Mau. There were only 52 runners signed up for
the 50K and 11 for the 100k. Suprisingly, there were only 4 that didn't
start. I spent half of the race by myself with virtually nobody in sight
in front or behind me. For hydration and energy I carried Cytomax powder
and a 24 oz. hand-held water bottle. I measured out 40 gram amounts of
Cytomax and put them in 4 small baggies. They neatly fit inside my
Amphipod waist pack. At the aid stations the volunteers did all the
work, which was a good thing, since I could not move my fingers very
well after they got cold. The volunteers filled my bottle with water,
pulled a baggie from my pack and mixed it in with the water. My plan was
to drink about 10 oz every 2 or 3 miles. As it turned out, this was too
much fluid for such a cool day. I stopped 4 times along the course to
empty my bladder. I wasn't racing, so this was not a big deal. At about
20 miles, I drank about 10 more oz and dumped the other 10. I ran by the
last aid station at the 26 mile mark. The main thing was that I wanted
to test this "mixing routine" during a long event. It worked quite well
for this event. This would not work well in a crowded event where the
volunteers are merely handing cups to thousands of runners. This is
another added bonus for ultra races. You get first class treatment at
the aid stations. If you want, they'll sit you down, wash your feet,
dress your wounds, pop your blisters, you name it.
The weather was lousy. It rained for the entire event, with the temps in
the mid 40s. I wore a long-sleeve technical t-shirt, vest, shorts,
hat, rag wool mittens, and Sugoi wind mitts. I carried some chemical
hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later. I put a light coat
of Vaseline on my feet, legs, and face. I started out pretty cold, but
soon warmed up nicely. Half way through my hands started to get pretty
cold, so I opened the chemical hand warmers and put them inside the
mittens. The hand warmers barely warmed up at all. Maybe they got too
wet, or they were defective in some way. They've worked before on
20-mile training runs, but not today. During the remaining 15 miles I
balled up my hand inside the mitten, one hand at a time, since I was
carrying my water bottle. I kept telling myself, "This could be much
worse if it were July." I can put up with the cold hands. It will not
impact my running.
One neat thing about an out-and-back course like this is that you get to
see the front runners as they are coming back. Every single runner
smiled, waved, and had a friendly greeting. Even during the end of the
50K as some of the 100K runners were on their way to their second lap
they were still smiling. Unbelievable! I personally would require some
major motivation to start that second 31-mile lap. You've just finished
running 31 miles. Your car is right there. You have lots of friends and
family offering food and warmth. You know what? I think I'll call it a
day. Why put myself through this for another 4 or 5 hours? I found this
inspiring that these guys and gals continue on their journey through the
cold/wet weather with a wave and a smile.
The 50K and the 100K are run concurrently. The 100k runners do 2 laps of
the 50K out-and-back course. As I was nearing the 30 mile mark, with 1
mile to go, I was starting to gain on a runner. My competitive juices
started to kick in as I felt this runner pulling me closer and closer.
If I wanted to pass him, I had to start running considerably faster than
my average pace. As I ran by him I smiled and said we only had about a
half mile to go. He smiled back and said, "No. I've got another lap. I'm
doing the 100k." Oh my God! Here I am killing myself to overtake this
guy and he's got another 31 miles to run!
Overall a great course with great support and gorgeous views of the
rolling countryside (even in the rain). If it works out for my plans, I
will certainly do this again next year.
My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
for 4.5 to 5 hours.
Results: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/r-scur06.html
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864321 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 20:31 |
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Big congrats, Phil! Sounds like you did great even if it was
"only" a training run. But you have more info for the upcoming
big 50-m, like the mittens if it's cold (I hate having numb
hands...) Very interesting report, thanks for sending it. I
want to try one!!!
Teresa in AZ
Phil M. wrote:
> Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k
> Location: Rockmart Georgia
> Date/Time: Saturday, February 25, 2006, 7:30 AM
> Weather: Rain, 45° F, 92% humidity, calm winds
> Web Site: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/e-scur.html
>
> There aren't that many ultras in Georgia, so this was too convenient to
> pass up and it fits nicely into my training plan. The start is in
> Rockmart, which is about 75 miles west of my home. The purpose of doing
> this event was to run an "easy" four to five hour run to prepare for an
> upcoming 50-miler. So I didn't race this event (as if I could actually
> "race" an ultra). All miles except the last one were run at an easy
> pace. I stopped at all but the last aid station.
>
> This was my second 50k. The 2 races were very different. The other 50K
> (Dizzy Fifties) that I did was last November. It involved lots of hilly
> terrain on dirt trails. I fell numerous times during that race. The
> Silver Comet Ultra is run entirely on a flat and wide paved trail. The
> Silver Comet Trail (http://tinyurl.com/esp4p) is a 60 mile-long,
> converted rail-trail going from Smyrna, about 15 miles Northwest of
> Atlanta, to the Georgia-Alabama state line. You are probably not going
> to find a trail in Georgia that is more flat than this one. The course
> (http://tinyurl.com/k9fpr) rises 300 feet fromt the start to about the
> 10K mark. This is just under a 1% grade, which is almost imperceptible.
>
> The paved path also has a dirt/grass bridal path that runs adjacent to
> the asphalt. I ran on this as much as I could. Since it rained for the
> entire event, there were some sections that were too wet or muddy, but
> for the most part this was a welcome relief from the hardness of the
> pavement. There were 3 aid stations along the course - 8k, 18k, and the
> 25k turnaround. The volunteers were most excellent. They treated my like
> the Sultan of Um-papa Mau Mau. There were only 52 runners signed up for
> the 50K and 11 for the 100k. Suprisingly, there were only 4 that didn't
> start. I spent half of the race by myself with virtually nobody in sight
> in front or behind me. For hydration and energy I carried Cytomax powder
> and a 24 oz. hand-held water bottle. I measured out 40 gram amounts of
> Cytomax and put them in 4 small baggies. They neatly fit inside my
> Amphipod waist pack. At the aid stations the volunteers did all the
> work, which was a good thing, since I could not move my fingers very
> well after they got cold. The volunteers filled my bottle with water,
> pulled a baggie from my pack and mixed it in with the water. My plan was
> to drink about 10 oz every 2 or 3 miles. As it turned out, this was too
> much fluid for such a cool day. I stopped 4 times along the course to
> empty my bladder. I wasn't racing, so this was not a big deal. At about
> 20 miles, I drank about 10 more oz and dumped the other 10. I ran by the
> last aid station at the 26 mile mark. The main thing was that I wanted
> to test this "mixing routine" during a long event. It worked quite well
> for this event. This would not work well in a crowded event where the
> volunteers are merely handing cups to thousands of runners. This is
> another added bonus for ultra races. You get first class treatment at
> the aid stations. If you want, they'll sit you down, wash your feet,
> dress your wounds, pop your blisters, you name it.
>
> The weather was lousy. It rained for the entire event, with the temps in
> the mid 40s. I wore a long-sleeve technical t-shirt, vest, shorts,
> hat, rag wool mittens, and Sugoi wind mitts. I carried some chemical
> hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later. I put a light coat
> of Vaseline on my feet, legs, and face. I started out pretty cold, but
> soon warmed up nicely. Half way through my hands started to get pretty
> cold, so I opened the chemical hand warmers and put them inside the
> mittens. The hand warmers barely warmed up at all. Maybe they got too
> wet, or they were defective in some way. They've worked before on
> 20-mile training runs, but not today. During the remaining 15 miles I
> balled up my hand inside the mitten, one hand at a time, since I was
> carrying my water bottle. I kept telling myself, "This could be much
> worse if it were July." I can put up with the cold hands. It will not
> impact my running.
>
> One neat thing about an out-and-back course like this is that you get to
> see the front runners as they are coming back. Every single runner
> smiled, waved, and had a friendly greeting. Even during the end of the
> 50K as some of the 100K runners were on their way to their second lap
> they were still smiling. Unbelievable! I personally would require some
> major motivation to start that second 31-mile lap. You've just finished
> running 31 miles. Your car is right there. You have lots of friends and
> family offering food and warmth. You know what? I think I'll call it a
> day. Why put myself through this for another 4 or 5 hours? I found this
> inspiring that these guys and gals continue on their journey through the
> cold/wet weather with a wave and a smile.
>
> The 50K and the 100K are run concurrently. The 100k runners do 2 laps of
> the 50K out-and-back course. As I was nearing the 30 mile mark, with 1
> mile to go, I was starting to gain on a runner. My competitive juices
> started to kick in as I felt this runner pulling me closer and closer.
> If I wanted to pass him, I had to start running considerably faster than
> my average pace. As I ran by him I smiled and said we only had about a
> half mile to go. He smiled back and said, "No. I've got another lap. I'm
> doing the 100k." Oh my God! Here I am killing myself to overtake this
> guy and he's got another 31 miles to run!
>
> Overall a great course with great support and gorgeous views of the
> rolling countryside (even in the rain). If it works out for my plans, I
> will certainly do this again next year.
>
> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
>
> Results: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/r-scur06.html
>
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864322 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 20:52 |
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Teresa Bippert-Plymate wrote:
> Big congrats, Phil! Sounds like you did great even if it was
> "only" a training run. But you have more info for the upcoming
> big 50-m, like the mittens if it's cold (I hate having numb
> hands...)
Thanks Teresa. I'm not sure what the deal was with the chemical hand
warmers. I've never had them not work before. And I'm pretty sure I've
tried them in the rain. I guess I need to bring a back-up pair next
time.
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864325 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 21:16 |
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Phil M. <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote:
> Teresa Bippert-Plymate wrote:
>
>> Big congrats, Phil! Sounds like you did great even if it was
>> "only" a training run. But you have more info for the upcoming
>> big 50-m, like the mittens if it's cold (I hate having numb
>> hands...)
>
> Thanks Teresa. I'm not sure what the deal was with the chemical hand
> warmers. I've never had them not work before. And I'm pretty sure I've
> tried them in the rain. I guess I need to bring a back-up pair next
> time.
Phil,
Just curious, how do these chemical hand warmers work? Do your hands
actually make contact with chemicals?
Btw, I enjoyed reading your report. Sounds like you had fun.
jobs
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864329 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 22:31 |
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jobin [at] remove-deez-words.hotmail.com.edu wrote:
> Just curious, how do these chemical hand warmers work? Do your hands
> actually make contact with chemicals?
No, the ingredients are surrounded by a polypropylene bag. Here's a pretty
good explaination: http://tinyurl.com/jtgyv
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864331 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 22:36 |
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Phil M. wrote:
> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
Phil,
You decided what 50M you're doing? Assuming you really did do a training
run pace, which should roughly equate to the pace you'd do in a 50M,
8:30 at AR will be a piece of cake :-)
--
- The Trailrunner
Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*
Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864335 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 22:44 |
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TheTrailhead*BS* [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Phil M. wrote:
>
>> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
>> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
>> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
>
> Phil,
> You decided what 50M you're doing?
It looks like it's going to be McNaughton Park (http://tinyurl.com/avp9c)
in Illinois. The wife has me on a serious guilt trip about my running
adventures, so at least I can coincide this one with a mandatory visit to
see my parents.
> Assuming you really did do a training run pace, which should roughly
> equate to the pace you'd do in a 50M, 8:30 at AR will be a piece of
> cake :-)
You are not going to find an easier course than the Silver Comet course.
And 50-miles being an unknown distance for me...I'll think of some other
excuses and get back with you. ;-)
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864337 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 23:20 |
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Phil M. wrote:
> You are not going to find an easier course than the Silver Comet course.
> And 50-miles being an unknown distance for me...I'll think of some other
> excuses and get back with you. ;-)
Well, too bad about AR. The first 31 while not totally flat, is probably
as close to the Silver Comet as you're going to get. And the few short
hills early at AR give you an excuse to take a walk break. So if you
were comfortable with your pace at SC and didn't leave it all on the
trail by the finish, you would/will be fine for the next 19.
--
- The Trailrunner
Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*
Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864340 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 23:41 |
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"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97778A6A8B805seilogramp [at] 216.77.188.18...
> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
Nice feat! Thought I say it first. :) Ain't they a blast just to run
for shits and giggles? I'm looking for 6 hours at the HAT with Bull Run
two weeks later.
Let us know how your recovey goes!!! Recovery says a lot about your
training
-DougF
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864341 ] |
Mon, 27 February 2006 23:49 |
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"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9777AAB52F2E8seilogramp [at] 216.77.188.18...
> TheTrailhead*BS* [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Phil M. wrote:
>>
>>> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
>>> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving
>>> forward
>>> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
>>
>> Phil,
>> You decided what 50M you're doing?
>
> It looks like it's going to be McNaughton Park
> (http://tinyurl.com/avp9c)
Nice honest choice. Web page says "The elevation gain per 10 mile lap is
1,600 feet." That's 8,000 feet and a solid effort. This will be a big
step up from Silver Comet. ;) I'm sure you going to do some training
runs with 4-5K of elevation, right?
-DF
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864345 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 00:13 |
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I've used them a few times when observing (telescopes) and
they've always worked. But maybe they can get weak if they're
old? I've *heard* from other observers that they've had ones
that "got weak", though I haven't experienced that nor can
confirm it in any way. Just a guess....
Teresa in AZ
Phil M. wrote:
> Teresa Bippert-Plymate wrote:
>
>
>>Big congrats, Phil! Sounds like you did great even if it was
>>"only" a training run. But you have more info for the upcoming
>>big 50-m, like the mittens if it's cold (I hate having numb
>>hands...)
>
>
> Thanks Teresa. I'm not sure what the deal was with the chemical hand
> warmers. I've never had them not work before. And I'm pretty sure I've
> tried them in the rain. I guess I need to bring a back-up pair next
> time.
>
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864346 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 00:35 |
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dfreese [at] hvc.rr.com wrote:
>> It looks like it's going to be McNaughton Park
>> (http://tinyurl.com/avp9c)
>
> Nice honest choice. Web page says "The elevation gain per 10 mile lap is
> 1,600 feet." That's 8,000 feet and a solid effort. This will be a big
> step up from Silver Comet. ;) I'm sure you going to do some training
> runs with 4-5K of elevation, right?
Oh sure. That's about my weekly total. ;-) I did a 19-miler a few weeks ago
that was about 2100 feet climb. That's the best I can do around here
without running on the AT.
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864351 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 01:20 |
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"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97778A6A8B805seilogramp [at] 216.77.188.18...
> Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k
> Location: Rockmart Georgia
> Date/Time: Saturday, February 25, 2006, 7:30 AM
> Weather: Rain, 45° F, 92% humidity, calm winds
> Web Site: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/e-scur.html
That's a nasty biting damp kind of cold.
> The weather was lousy. It rained for the entire event, with the temps in
> the mid 40s. I wore a long-sleeve technical t-shirt, vest, shorts,
> hat, rag wool mittens, and Sugoi wind mitts. I carried some chemical
> hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later. I put a light coat
> of Vaseline on my feet, legs, and face. I started out pretty cold, but
After my experience at Vermont, I would wear tights, a mid-weight top, and
carry a light shell jacket (thin poly hat and gloves also).
> soon warmed up nicely. Half way through my hands started to get pretty
> cold, so I opened the chemical hand warmers and put them inside the
> mittens. The hand warmers barely warmed up at all. Maybe they got too
> wet, or they were defective in some way. They've worked before on
> 20-mile training runs, but not today. During the remaining 15 miles I
> balled up my hand inside the mitten, one hand at a time, since I was
> carrying my water bottle. I kept telling myself, "This could be much
> worse if it were July." I can put up with the cold hands. It will not
> impact my running.
Echoing what I said above, just a thought here. You said you wore a vest
with that long sleeve T. I think you should experiment with reverse layering
instead of core layering. That means even layering on top, or even double
layers on arms (arm warmers), and extra layers on the legs. I know you have
a specific problem with your hands, and you've probably experimented a great
deal, but I've recently tried this reverse layering thing, and it works. The
core doesn't overheat as much, but the arms tend to stay much warmer than
they used to, and the legs feel less stiff. Overall I'm much more
comfortable being outside running in the cold this way.
> One neat thing about an out-and-back course like this is that you get to
> see the front runners as they are coming back. Every single runner
> smiled, waved, and had a friendly greeting. Even during the end of the
> 50K as some of the 100K runners were on their way to their second lap
> they were still smiling. Unbelievable! I personally would require some
> major motivation to start that second 31-mile lap. You've just finished
> running 31 miles. Your car is right there. You have lots of friends and
> family offering food and warmth. You know what? I think I'll call it a
> day. Why put myself through this for another 4 or 5 hours? I found this
> inspiring that these guys and gals continue on their journey through the
> cold/wet weather with a wave and a smile.
In that kind of weather it is amazing they were smiling heading out again.
> The 50K and the 100K are run concurrently. The 100k runners do 2 laps of
> the 50K out-and-back course. As I was nearing the 30 mile mark, with 1
> mile to go, I was starting to gain on a runner. My competitive juices
> started to kick in as I felt this runner pulling me closer and closer.
> If I wanted to pass him, I had to start running considerably faster than
> my average pace. As I ran by him I smiled and said we only had about a
> half mile to go. He smiled back and said, "No. I've got another lap. I'm
> doing the 100k." Oh my God! Here I am killing myself to overtake this
> guy and he's got another 31 miles to run!
That's funny. That's a damn long way to run on pavement - 50k that is - and
that dude was heading out again. Honestly at that moment did you feel
humbled or that the guy was insane for doing the 100k?
> Overall a great course with great support and gorgeous views of the
> rolling countryside (even in the rain). If it works out for my plans, I
> will certainly do this again next year.
No no - it's not a trail bro!
> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
>
> Results: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/r-scur06.html
Nice way to get in a long run, lower your 50k PR and go sub-5. Around 9 min
miles - that's pretty damn good for training. It seems like you're born for
this long stuff Phil.
-Tony
> --
> Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864360 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 03:12 |
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email_tonys [at] NOSPAMyahoo.com wrote:
> After my experience at Vermont, I would wear tights, a mid-weight top,
> and carry a light shell jacket (thin poly hat and gloves also).
I was actually thinking tights. I had everything ready in my car ready to
change just before the start. I saw nobody else wearing tights. What the
heck do I know? I'll stay with the shorts.
> Echoing what I said above, just a thought here. You said you wore a
> vest with that long sleeve T. I think you should experiment with
> reverse layering instead of core layering. That means even layering on
> top, or even double layers on arms (arm warmers), and extra layers on
> the legs. I know you have a specific problem with your hands, and
> you've probably experimented a great deal, but I've recently tried
> this reverse layering thing, and it works. The core doesn't overheat
> as much, but the arms tend to stay much warmer than they used to, and
> the legs feel less stiff. Overall I'm much more comfortable being
> outside running in the cold this way.
It's worth a try. Now that the weather is heating up in Georgia. 72F by
Thursday.
>> Overall a great course with great support and gorgeous views of the
>> rolling countryside (even in the rain). If it works out for my plans,
>> I will certainly do this again next year.
>
> No no - it's not a trail bro!
Hey, it's called the Silver Comet *Trail*. But I know what you mean.
> Nice way to get in a long run, lower your 50k PR and go sub-5.
I didn't fall one time. I gingerly jumped over those hair-line cracks in
the pavement. One reason I'd like to try this again is to see what my real
50k PR could be. About as fast a 50k course as you'll find.
> Around 9 min miles - that's pretty damn good for training. It seems
> like you're born for this long stuff Phil.
Yeah, we'll see how my recovery goes. I hope to get quickly up to speed
again for some quality 60+ mile weeks with more trails and hills.
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864370 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 05:38 |
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Phil wrote:
> Weather: Rain, 45° F
Uggg, about the only worse weather, is windy and 10F colder. My hat's off
to you for running nearly 5 hours in that.
> They treated my like the Sultan of Um-papa Mau Mau.
They summoned a translator?
Offered you a deal running American ports?
Where exactly *is* this sultanate anyhow? ;-)
> He smiled back and said, "No. I've got another lap. I'm doing
> the 100k." Oh my God! Here I am killing myself to overtake this
> guy and he's got another 31 miles to run!
All these smiling people running over 60 miles on pavement in horrible
weather - you really make it sound a little cultish.
Hey, fine job with the training race, and an especially excellent writeup
Phil.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864380 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 08:07 |
|
Nice run in unpleasant conditions Phil.
Did your socks/ feet get wet through straight away?
Was that an issue for you?
The 50-miler is in mid-April if I read it correctly.
Good luck with the training!
Anthony.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864381 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 08:17 |
|
Phil M. wrote:
> Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k
> Location: Rockmart Georgia
> Date/Time: Saturday, February 25, 2006, 7:30 AM
> Weather: Rain, 45° F, 92% humidity, calm winds
> Web Site: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/e-scur.html
..... <rearranged order>
>
> My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> training run. I accomplished my goal, which was to stay moving forward
> for 4.5 to 5 hours.
First, congratulations on a nice training run. ;) Sounds like you have
you mileage, pacing, eating, drinking under control.
....
> The weather was lousy. It rained for the entire event, with the temps in
> the mid 40s. I wore a long-sleeve technical t-shirt, vest, shorts,
> hat, rag wool mittens, and Sugoi wind mitts.
For curiosity, are the wind mitts just a shell or do they have
insulation? water resistant or waterproof - ie, did they get soaked from
outside? Are the rag wool mittens regular weight or are they your
Dachsteins? (just trying to help trouble shoot cold hand issue) For
curiosity, above what temperatures do you not need mittens? I know that
wind and rain make a difference, but wondering if the rain warranted
warmer mittens than what you wore - or rain protection. I see you did
wear a hat, which is the obvious way to save heat.
I saw your comments with Tony. RE: tights vs shorts. I wear what's
comfortable for me, not what others are wearing, since I usually dress
more warmly than most and have never regretted it, but that's me. (did
regret dressing too lightly once when they moved the start time back 1
hr and a front came through during that time) If it was raining hard, I
probably would have worn a rain shell and maybe kept my hands tucked in
the sleeves. (I've had past run-ins with hypothermia and don't care to
repeat.)
I'd definitely be sure that arms are reasonably warm, so you don't loose
excess heat through those pipes and get as much to the hands as possible.
>I carried some chemical
> hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later.
In plastic bags?
FWIW, I usually try to work with passive solutions (ie clothes rather
than chemical warmers), if possible, since when you need something to
work most, is when it frequently doesn't.
....
During the remaining 15 miles I
> balled up my hand inside the mitten, one hand at a time, since I was
> carrying my water bottle.
This is why I don't like carrying things - water bottles, flashlights,
and esp. ski poles (likely cold temperatures when using these). Grasping
an item constricts circulation. Hmmm, could this have been a contributor
to the cold-hand problem - one or the other of your hands was holding
the bottle (either you were grasping it or there was a band holding it
on your hand) the whole time.
> Oh my God! Here I am killing myself to overtake this
> guy and he's got another 31 miles to run!
Doncha hate people like that ;)
>
> Overall a great course with great support and gorgeous views of the
> rolling countryside (even in the rain). If it works out for my plans, I
> will certainly do this again next year.
Sounds like a good course and you had a good time. Congrats!
Dot
--
"Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864397 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 13:15 |
|
"Dot" <dot.h [at] #duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:YNSMf.15849$Zw.8813 [at] bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Phil M. wrote:
>> Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k
>> Location: Rockmart Georgia
>> Date/Time: Saturday, February 25, 2006, 7:30 AM
>> Weather: Rain, 45° F, 92% humidity, calm winds
>> Web Site: http://www.tynesweb.com/guts/e-scur.html
>
> .... <rearranged order>
>
> >
> > My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> > training run.
Thought I poke you in the rips while I'm still able to put one foot in
front of the other.
Mid-Hudson Recover From the Holidays Fat Ass 50-kilometer race, Jan 2006
4. Jacque Schiffer and Doug Freese 4:41:33 and it wan't flat. Guile and
wisdom prevails. :) :)
-DF
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864404 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 14:49 |
|
Anthony wrote:
> Nice run in unpleasant conditions Phil.
> Did your socks/ feet get wet through straight away?
> Was that an issue for you?
They did get wet, especially after stepping in some water on the bridal
path. You couldn't see the water until you were almost in it. But it
didn't bother me too much. My feet stayed warm, no blisters. Maybe the
Brooks GTS5 that I was wearing drain well. Also, I had a coat of
Vaseline on my feet.
> The 50-miler is in mid-April if I read it correctly.
> Good luck with the training!
Yes sir. Thank you.
--
Phil M.
|
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864405 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 14:56 |
|
Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> Phil wrote:
> > Weather: Rain, 45=B0 F
>
> Uggg, about the only worse weather, is windy and 10F colder. My hat's off
> to you for running nearly 5 hours in that.
I could have been July, which would be worse.
> > They treated my like the Sultan of Um-papa Mau Mau.
>
> They summoned a translator?
The 100K winner, Ian Harding, came over from England for the race, and
Bruce Barteaux from Nova Scotia, Canada. I guess they could have used a
translator
> All these smiling people running over 60 miles on pavement in horrible
> weather - you really make it sound a little cultish.
I don't know. Maybe they were really laughing at me.
> Hey, fine job with the training race, and an especially excellent writeup
Thanks.
--=20
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864411 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 15:15 |
|
my kind of race.
maybe some day if I ever get a job.
My racer seems to drag in the wheels.
spins like 5 times for. been in barn since end of fall.
maybe stay with mountain bike for a while longer. :>)
been to Benning... mudd rivers there and sun shine.
sounds like a place for a slug?
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864414 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 15:41 |
|
Dot wrote:
> First, congratulations on a nice training run. ;) Sounds like you have
> you mileage, pacing, eating, drinking under control.
Thanks. Not so sure about eating and drinking under control. I had to
stop too many times to relieve myself of excess fluids. I had a pretty
good meal the night before. A couple of pop-tarts and peanut butter 2
hours before the race. I didn't feel hungry during the race. Maybe I
should have tested some things.
> For curiosity, are the wind mitts just a shell or do they have
> insulation? water resistant or waterproof - ie, did they get soaked from
> outside?
The wind mitts (http://tinyurl.com/8jop5) have a thin fleece inner
lining. I would consider them water resistant, but not waterproof. My
guess is that most of the water ran into the gloves from my forearems.
> Are the rag wool mittens regular weight or are they your Dachsteins?
Regular weight.
> For curiosity, above what temperatures do you not need mittens?
Above 65=B0F - no mittens or gloves
50=B0F to 65=B0F - either thermal gloves, polartech gloves, or
windstopper gloves
40=B0F to 50=B0F - rag wool mittens w/ Sugoi wind mitts
Under 40=B0F - Dachsteins w/ wind mitts
> I know that wind and rain make a difference, but wondering if the rain w=
arranted
> warmer mittens than what you wore - or rain protection.
I agree. If the Dachsteins weren't so darned bulky, I would have taken
them with me on the run.
> I see you did wear a hat, which is the obvious way to save heat.
I wore one of my less porous hats. That worked well.
> I saw your comments with Tony. RE: tights vs shorts. I wear what's
> comfortable for me, not what others are wearing, since I usually dress
> more warmly than most and have never regretted it, but that's me.
My legs were never cold. I was concerend that the rain might cause a
rash, but the olive oil seemed to do the trick. I have a pair a very
lightweight tights that could have worked.
> I'd definitely be sure that arms are reasonably warm, so you don't loose
> excess heat through those pipes and get as much to the hands as possible.
I just ordered a Cloudveil Half Moon jacket (http://tinyurl.com/glzqv).
It looks like it's a little more water proof than the Sugoi jacket that
I wear. It may be a little warmer though. We'll see.
> >I carried some chemical
> > hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later.
>
> In plastic bags?
They come in their own plastic bags. You think they could have leeked?
> FWIW, I usually try to work with passive solutions (ie clothes rather
> than chemical warmers), if possible, since when you need something to
> work most, is when it frequently doesn't.
It seems that the longer the run the more chance I'm going to need the
hand warmers. I was relying on them for this run. I think I just had a
couple of duds.
> During the remaining 15 miles I
> > balled up my hand inside the mitten, one hand at a time, since I was
> > carrying my water bottle.
>
> This is why I don't like carrying things - water bottles, flashlights,
> and esp. ski poles (likely cold temperatures when using these). Grasping
> an item constricts circulation. Hmmm, could this have been a contributor
> to the cold-hand problem - one or the other of your hands was holding
> the bottle (either you were grasping it or there was a band holding it
> on your hand) the whole time.
Could be. I often switched hands. Maybe I could use a decent single
bottle pack. Here's an Amphipod model that I've been eyeing -
http://tinyurl.com/zgeam. Like I need another pack! :-) I have an
Amphipod that I use now for carying minimal gear. Seems to be decent
quality.
> Sounds like a good course and you had a good time. Congrats!
Thanks Dot. And thanks for the clothing/gear suggestions.=20
--=20
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864416 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 15:45 |
|
Doug Freese wrote:
> > > My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for a
> > > training run.
>
> Thought I poke you in the rips while I'm still able to put one foot in
> front of the other.
>
> Mid-Hudson Recover From the Holidays Fat Ass 50-kilometer race, Jan 2006
> 4. Jacque Schiffer and Doug Freese 4:41:33 and it wan't flat. Guile and
> wisdom prevails. :) :)
If only I didn't have to take a whizz so many times. That was 10
minutes right there. ;-)
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864421 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 16:26 |
|
On 28 Feb 2006 05:49:13 -0800, "Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote:
>They did get wet, especially after stepping in some water on the bridal
>path.
You got married Phil? Congrats!
>You couldn't see the water until you were almost in it. But it
>didn't bother me too much. My feet stayed warm, no blisters. Maybe the
>Brooks GTS5 that I was wearing drain well.
A wedding "on the run" eh? Great idea.
>Also, I had a coat of
>Vaseline on my feet.
>
And your arse too, I hope? (I heard about your sex preferences)
>> The 50-miler is in mid-April if I read it correctly.
>> Good luck with the training!
>
>Yes sir. Thank you.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864424 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 16:31 |
|
"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
news:1141137669.738817.230380 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dot wrote:
> First, congratulations on a nice training run. ;) Sounds like you
> have
> you mileage, pacing, eating, drinking under control.
> Thanks. Not so sure about eating and drinking under control. I had to
> stop too many times to relieve myself of excess fluids.
What means too many? In a trail race it's the too infrequent piss stop
that is the problem. If I had my way I like to go every hour or so.
> I had a pretty
> good meal the night before. A couple of pop-tarts and peanut butter 2
> hours before the race. I didn't feel hungry during the race. Maybe I
> should have tested some things.
I usually have a big meal before a 50k because they tend to start about
9 am and I don't eat very much during a race. My last race was one PB&J
sandwich the one before was some fig newtons. The only way to eat more
when you run is to eat less before you start and I'm not sure that makes
sense. Eat when you feel it benefits you best.
-DF
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864425 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 16:33 |
|
"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
news:1141137926.057878.150820 [at] t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Doug Freese wrote:
>
>> > > My time was 4:49:06. I placed 14 out of 54 starters. Not bad for
>> > > a
>> > > training run.
>>
>> Thought I poke you in the rips while I'm still able to put one foot
>> in
>> front of the other.
>>
>> Mid-Hudson Recover From the Holidays Fat Ass 50-kilometer race, Jan
>> 2006
>> 4. Jacque Schiffer and Doug Freese 4:41:33 and it wan't flat. Guile
>> and
>> wisdom prevails. :) :)
>
> If only I didn't have to take a whizz so many times. That was 10
> minutes right there. ;-)
If you can't solve the frequency problem, try a catheter and never stop.
:)
-DF
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864427 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 16:43 |
|
Doug Freese wrote:
> > If only I didn't have to take a whizz so many times. That was 10
> > minutes right there. ;-)
>
> If you can't solve the frequency problem, try a catheter and never stop.
Sounds like a plan. Maybe use 2 CamelBaks, one for incomming, one for
outgoing.
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864431 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 17:42 |
|
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:34:03 GMT, "Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote:
>Race: Silver Comet Ultra Runs 50k . . .
Wow. Congratulations Phil!
> . . .
>The Silver Comet Ultra is run entirely on a flat and wide paved trail...
If you do make it out to Sacramento California area some day you will
find the American River "Bike Trail" is just a bit rolling (follows
the river which doesn't make any sudden elevation changes at that
point). AR is paved but most of it (at least that I've been on) has
cinder path (tan decomposed granite, I think) on the margins -- I like
the feel of that "most weather" running surface.
> . . . For hydration and energy I carried Cytomax powder
>and a 24 oz. hand-held water bottle. I measured out 40 gram amounts of
>Cytomax and put them in 4 small baggies. . . .
Do you find that the Cytomax doesn't want to mix? I do the
beverage-powder-in-small-baggies routine not only when running but
when travelling. Cyto into a damp bottle turns into insoluble goo --
I think you once called it "cytochunks". What worked best for me was
about 1/4 bottle of water, dump the powder, shake, then the rest of
the water -- and still get some chunks.
Phil, thanks for the race report, and for your helpful posts. Since I
started running in 2004, you have helped me with various things from a
link that showed different ways to tie my shoes, to a link that showed
the detailed anatomy of the lower leg muscle by muscle, to training
advice -- and humor. Thanks.
--
Daniel
deltaechomike [at] usa.net
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864432 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 17:58 |
|
Daniel wrote:
> If you do make it out to Sacramento California area some day you will
> find the American River "Bike Trail" is just a bit rolling (follows
> the river which doesn't make any sudden elevation changes at that
> point). AR is paved but most of it (at least that I've been on) has
> cinder path (tan decomposed granite, I think) on the margins -- I like
> the feel of that "most weather" running surface.
The AR50 was on my schedule until recently. Maybe some day.
> > . . . For hydration and energy I carried Cytomax powder
> >and a 24 oz. hand-held water bottle. I measured out 40 gram amounts of
> >Cytomax and put them in 4 small baggies. . . .
>
> Do you find that the Cytomax doesn't want to mix? I do the
> beverage-powder-in-small-baggies routine not only when running but
> when travelling. Cyto into a damp bottle turns into insoluble goo --
> I think you once called it "cytochunks". What worked best for me was
> about 1/4 bottle of water, dump the powder, shake, then the rest of
> the water -- and still get some chunks.
I usually use the "tangy" orange flavor. I did have cytochunks when I
tried their "go grape" flavor. At first it was a little shocking to
suck up the chunks through my CamelBak. It made me gag for a second.
> Phil, thanks for the race report, and for your helpful posts. Since I
> started running in 2004, you have helped me with various things from a
> link that showed different ways to tie my shoes, to a link that showed
> the detailed anatomy of the lower leg muscle by muscle, to training
> advice -- and humor. Thanks.
Thank *you*. It's nice to know that someone actually reads my drivel. I
hope I didn't steer you wrong too many times.
--
Phil M.
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864435 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 18:30 |
|
My experiences make me believe that the problem was not the hand warmers
but Raynaud's. I only discovered that I had Raynaud's a few weeks ago
when it was mentioned in this group. Upon research, it explained many
things I had experienced over the years.
Two weeks ago on my long run, the temperature was in the teens with
significant wind. I took my hard warmers out of the plastic bag I keep
them in between uses and inserted them into my Paradox mittens. They
felt warm. I then started my first 10.5 mile loop. Somewhere in the
first few miles they stopped felling warm. I assumed they had died but
I didn't think that I had that may hours using them; therefore I assumed
that maybe my plastic bag had a leak. Back at my car after my first
loop, I struggled (with numb hands and fingers) with removing and
putting back on my Paradox mittens with a new set of hand warmers. I
started out on my second loop and my hands never felt any warmth from
the warmers. I couldn't believe I had a defective set of warmers. Once
I completed my second loop (with hands so numb I was barely able to turn
the key to open my car door - took both hands), I placed the warmers in
the plastic bag. The next day before my run I took the warmers out a
few minutes before leaving. When I checked them they were fine and I
had no problem with using them the rest of the week.
Consequently, it is my belief that with Raynaud's, once your body has
decided to constrict the blood vessels in your hands, it requires more
heat than warmers can provide to convince your body to restart the blood
flow. In fact, for me it requires a half-hour or more with my whole
body at room temperature for normal feeling to return to my hands.
Thinking about my use of warmers this winter (my first usage - since
mittens, socks, and new Paradox mittens, etc. were not doing the job), I
have two states. Either my fingers are warm and have moisture or they
are numb. When I'm running, I usually start out in the first state but
sometimes (due to especially cold conditions?) they eventually lose that
moisture and go numb. Why? I assume my body feels it needs to conserve
heat and constricts the blood flow. It's probably reacting to the
actual cold or the stress of the cold on my mood (cold and calm is OK,
but NOT with wind).
Phil M. wrote:
> Teresa Bippert-Plymate wrote:
>
>
>>Big congrats, Phil! Sounds like you did great even if it was
>>"only" a training run. But you have more info for the upcoming
>>big 50-m, like the mittens if it's cold (I hate having numb
>>hands...)
>
>
> Thanks Teresa. I'm not sure what the deal was with the chemical hand
> warmers. I've never had them not work before. And I'm pretty sure I've
> tried them in the rain. I guess I need to bring a back-up pair next
> time.
>
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864437 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 18:45 |
|
Michael wrote:
> My experiences make me believe that the problem was not the hand warmers
> but Raynaud's.
Yes, that's certainly the case with me as well. However, until
Saturday, the hand warmers always saved the day. In the rain, a
fresh/dry pair of wool mittens would have been good also.
> I assume my body feels it needs to conserve
> heat and constricts the blood flow. It's probably reacting to the
> actual cold or the stress of the cold on my mood (cold and calm is OK,
> but NOT with wind).
That's the way I understand it. If you have Raynaud's your body is
over-reacting to even the slightest chill by going into survival mode,
limiting blood flow to the hands to save the vital organs. Wish I could
reprogram my body to realize that I was not about to freeze to death
when it's 60=B0F.
--=20
Phil M.
|
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864443 ] |
Tue, 28 February 2006 20:23 |
|
"Phil M." <pmarg [at] charter.net> wrote in message
....
> I assume my body feels it needs to conserve
> heat and constricts the blood flow. It's probably reacting to the
> actual cold or the stress of the cold on my mood (cold and calm is OK,
> but NOT with wind).
<That's the way I understand it. If you have Raynaud's your body is
over-reacting to even the slightest chill by going into survival mode,
limiting blood flow to the hands to save the vital organs. Wish I could
reprogram my body to realize that I was not about to freeze to death
when it's 60°F.
--
Phil M.<
I don't have raynauds as far as I know, but I'm very sensitive to the cold,
and always have to wear more layers than other people I'm out with. My hands
and arms used to get very cold running even when I sweated profusely - so
cold that the hot shower would be needed to thaw them out. I think it had to
do with the fact that the prioirty of blood flow during running doesn't
significantly involve the arms or hands -- and that because of this the
hands and arms get a little cold initially and then send signals that the
reptile brain misinterprets and instead of releasing some bloodflow to the
hands/arms, it instead restricts blood there even more, flooding and further
over-heating the core. What Michael said is important - if you're calm this
is less likely to happen because it won't as much trigger a survival
response. Biting cold and windy cold (and one's attitude toward it) does
play a role.
Since I've done the reverse layering thing my hands have never been cold. In
fact, on Sunday's run for 2.5 hours with wind chills about 0, I had on only
medium weight polypro liner gloves the entire time. Never had to use the
thicker backup mittens at all. My hands were even sweating a little. Today
I'll go further than fairly thin biker's arm-warmers (which are
uncomfortable anyway) and test the theory further by cannibalizing one of my
old pull-over fleece tops (I prefer zipup tops now). I'll leave just the
neck and a strip out to each sleeve, cutting off the body entirely; then
I'll wear a thin long-sleeve polypro top and my hypervent shell over that --
and report back later.
-Tony
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864466 ] |
Wed, 01 March 2006 05:36 |
|
"Tony S." <email_tonys [at] NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Sq1Nf.322$ZL1.55 [at] trndny09...
> ...
> Since I've done the reverse layering thing my hands have never been cold.
In
> fact, on Sunday's run for 2.5 hours with wind chills about 0, I had on
only
> medium weight polypro liner gloves the entire time. Never had to use the
> thicker backup mittens at all. My hands were even sweating a little. Today
> I'll go further than fairly thin biker's arm-warmers (which are
> uncomfortable anyway) and test the theory further by cannibalizing one of
my
> old pull-over fleece tops (I prefer zipup tops now). I'll leave just the
> neck and a strip out to each sleeve, cutting off the body entirely; then
> I'll wear a thin long-sleeve polypro top and my hypervent shell over
that --
> and report back later.
>
> -Tony
The fleece sleeves only contraption works great, more testing to follow on
colder days with different combinations.
-Tony
|
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #864467 ] |
Wed, 01 March 2006 07:37 |
|
Phil M. wrote:
> Dot wrote:
>
>
>>For curiosity, are the wind mitts just a shell or do they have
>>insulation? water resistant or waterproof - ie, did they get soaked from
>>outside?
>
>
> The wind mitts (http://tinyurl.com/8jop5) have a thin fleece inner
> lining. I would consider them water resistant, but not waterproof. My
> guess is that most of the water ran into the gloves from my forearems.
Next time you have an opportunity, try with plastic bags outside or
waterproof (latex? or whatever) gloves inside - somehow get a vapor
barrier there. It may not be a solution, but curious if it provided any
help.
My accidental discovery (for me) was that a fairly light pair of mittens
kept my hands warmer than heavier ones, then I discovered they were
waterproof (didn't realize it when I bought them). Somewhere in
Armstrong's chapter on cold, I think he mentions something about skin
tries to keep a certain moisture level. My hands were always really dry
and keeping them moist helped immensely. The down side is that they
eventually sweat in those mittens anywhere above 0F for 1+ hr and are a
pain to try out. I've got some liners that I'm playing around with.
Maybe your hands aren't dry so this is barking up the wrong tree.
>
>
>>Are the rag wool mittens regular weight or are they your Dachsteins?
>
>
> Regular weight.
This reinforces the vapor barrier concept in my mind since those (at
least mine) tend to be very porous. But your hands probably respond
differently than mine.
>
>
>>I saw your comments with Tony. RE: tights vs shorts. I wear what's
>>comfortable for me, not what others are wearing, since I usually dress
>>more warmly than most and have never regretted it, but that's me.
>
>
> My legs were never cold. I was concerend that the rain might cause a
> rash, but the olive oil seemed to do the trick. I have a pair a very
> lightweight tights that could have worked.
When you said you were cold initially, was that just core?
Just another thought along this line as well as wearing arm warmers like
Tony suggested. A few years ago, I was having problems always sweating,
but I didn't feel like I was wearing that much. In Armstrong's book
around p. 88, he talks about conflicting signals to brain when
exercising: "This will send conflicting stimuli to your brain, which
will decrease shivering and sympathetic vasoconstriction, encouraging
heat loss while cold receptors in the skin simultaneously signal the
hypothalamus to conserve heat."
I tested this one day by warming up, then peeling all the way down to
short-sleeves (forgotten exact temperature, but definitely below
freezing, probably in teens). There was an adjustment period, then my
arms were sweating but cold to the touch. Duh - can't get any less
layers than bare skin. When I put a powerdry layer on, the sweating
seemed to stop (or was wicked away instantaneously, which I have trouble
believing), and my arms weren't as cold to the touch.
The layers I've been using lately in single digits F are plenty warm for
the core, and just a tad cool for the arms (ok in teens as long as no
wind). Like Tony, I'd also been thinking about arm warmers for longer
runs, but unlike Tony, I've been too lazy to try anything. ;) For a
couple hours, it's not that big a deal, but if I were doing a 5-hr run
in these temperatures, I'd be needing to adjust layers.
>
>
>>>I carried some chemical
>>>hand warmers in my pack in case I needed them later.
>>
>>In plastic bags?
>
>
> They come in their own plastic bags. You think they could have leeked?
Don't know. I just have a 45+ yr habit of putting most things in plastic
bags - since I first learned to camp in the rain in jr high or whenever.
They work ok until you have to repeatedly open and close bags in heavy
rain, then all they do is catch water, at which point I just leave
things out of their bags.
Hopefully, there's some ideas in these posts that you can try to retrain
your hypothalamus to make it think it's warm.
Dot
--
"Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter
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| Re: Race Report: Silver Comet Ultra Runs [message #899394 ] |
Wed, 01 March 2006 15:23 |
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Dot wrote:
> Next time you have an opportunity, try with plastic bags outside or
> waterproof (latex? or whatever) gloves inside - somehow get a vapor
> barrier there. It may not be a solution, but curious if it provided any
> help.
Actually, over a year ago, upon the recommendation of Dan, I tried
latex gloves. They did not work. Clipped from http://tinyurl.com/rtey9:
> I finally got around to trying your surgical gloves idea. It actually made
> the problem worse because the vapor got trapped between the surgical gloves
> and my hand. By the time my run was over my hands were surrounded by a
> layer of sweat trapped inside the surgical gloves.
> This reinforces the vapor barrier concept in my mind since those (at
> least mine) tend to be very porous. But your hands probably respond
> differently than mine.
Yes, and I think that's the key. Unless you have Raynaud's, you can't
really know what works for someone else with Raynaud's. Nonetheless, I
do appreciate your help, since some of your ideas may work.
> When you said you were cold initially, was that just core?
Yes. In my experience with races, where I have to stand around for
awhile until the race starts, if I'm not cold, then I'm gong to be too
hot during the event.
> Hopefully, there's some ideas in these posts that you can try to retrain
> your hypothalamus to make it think it's warm.
The race conditions that occurred during this event don't happen very
often (40F, rain). So I don't really get a chance to completely test
some of the gear. And I don't go seeking this type of weather. If
possible, I'll try to avoid this weather by running at a different time
that day.
--
Phil M.
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