| Greensomes [message #782933] |
Sun, 08 January 2006 18:28 |
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A Happy to New Year to you all.
Greensomes does not appear to be a form of golf recognised by the Rules
of Golf, but it is played quite frequently, particularly Mixed
Greensomes.
I have been asked the following question and would like contributors
comments and suggested answer:-
Greensomes (mixed). Both partners drive off, the Lady hits a bad drive,
her partner had hit a good drive slightly pulled and they think they can
see the ball, she picks her ball up and proceeds to her partners ball,
they discover that it is not his ball, it is apparently lost.
What are their options?
--
John Ditchfield
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| Re: Greensomes [message #782936 ] |
Sun, 08 January 2006 22:37 |
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John Ditchfield wrote:
> A Happy to New Year to you all.
>
> Greensomes does not appear to be a form of golf recognised by the Rules
> of Golf, but it is played quite frequently, particularly Mixed Greensomes.
>
> I have been asked the following question and would like contributors
> comments and suggested answer:-
>
> Greensomes (mixed). Both partners drive off, the Lady hits a bad drive,
> her partner had hit a good drive slightly pulled and they think they can
> see the ball, she picks her ball up and proceeds to her partners ball,
> they discover that it is not his ball, it is apparently lost.
>
> What are their options?
>
>
In equity I would allow her to replace her ball , unless she was
instructed to pick up the ball by her partner.....in which case they
would incur a penalty of one stroke.....and her partner's ball must
remain relevant. If it subsequently proves to be a 'lost' ball the next
stroke must be taken as in 'stroke and distance', with respect to that
'original'.
cheers
david
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| Re: Greensomes [message #782937 ] |
Sun, 08 January 2006 22:46 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Greensomes [message #782939 ] |
Mon, 09 January 2006 01:10 |
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R.V. Kint wrote:
>
>
> Don't you think that is overly generous considering the penalty
> under Rule 18-2a applied in Decisions 27-2b/9 and 27-2b/10?
Not really 'generous'....it would appear that both partners clearly
intended to play the male partner's ball, but it is only the female that
erred in prematurely picking up her ball. I know it is a partnership,
and generally (under the RoG) the misdeameanour of one would
automatically attach to the other......but in my judgement (as
hypothetical member of the Committee) I chose to be 'fair' to them and
to the rest of the field by insisting that the pair, having already
decided to play the male partner's ball, should be made to continue the
play of that ball, or a 's&d' substitute.....because the other ball has
been removed from play by picking it up! The above Decisions are
irrelevant....and only apply to the official 'Rules of Golf'......and a
'provisional ball'!
Perhaps I erred in providing for a conditional penalty attached to
whether the ladies ball was picked up 'under instruction' or not. There
is no precedence for this.....and it is only a 'game' after all! I don't
think the spirit of the game would be enhanced by adding that penalty to
the one already imposed for the lost ball.
cheers
david
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| Re: Greensomes [message #782940 ] |
Mon, 09 January 2006 01:31 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Greensomes [message #782944 ] |
Mon, 09 January 2006 06:40 |
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R.V. Kint wrote:
>
> You may want to conserve your exclamation points; we're barely
> in the 2nd week of year and you find more important uses for
> your outrage in the weeks to come.
>
Outrage? Me? Never!
cheers
:-)
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| Re: Greensomes [message #799662 ] |
Mon, 09 January 2006 15:16 |
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"david s-a" <dsantwyk [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:42dnv7F1ilodkU1 [at] individual.net...
> R.V. Kint wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Don't you think that is overly generous considering the penalty under
>> Rule 18-2a applied in Decisions 27-2b/9 and 27-2b/10?
>
> Not really 'generous'....it would appear that both partners clearly
> intended to play the male partner's ball, but it is only the female that
> erred in prematurely picking up her ball. I know it is a partnership, and
> generally (under the RoG) the misdeameanour of one would automatically
> attach to the other......but in my judgement (as hypothetical member of
> the Committee) I chose to be 'fair' to them and to the rest of the field
> by insisting that the pair, having already decided to play the male
> partner's ball, should be made to continue the play of that ball, or a
> 's&d' substitute.....because the other ball has been removed from play by
> picking it up! The above Decisions are irrelevant....and only apply to the
> official 'Rules of Golf'......and a 'provisional ball'!
>
> Perhaps I erred in providing for a conditional penalty attached to whether
> the ladies ball was picked up 'under instruction' or not. There is no
> precedence for this.....and it is only a 'game' after all! I don't think
> the spirit of the game would be enhanced by adding that penalty to the one
> already imposed for the lost ball.
>
> cheers
> david
>
Greensomes 'rules' are
1) both players drive
2) they select one ball
3) one of them (depending on the format) plays the second shot with the
selected ball
There is a key question: when does a ball hit from the tee become the "ball
in play". After the tee shot you have two options:
a) two balls in play.
b) no balls in play.
Its not really logical to have 'no balls' in play (and I suspect you could
take all sorts of advantages) so I reckon you have 2 balls in play from
which you must select 1 to continue.
Clearly the team in question had selected the male persons ball and when
they failed to find it, they have two options
a) select the male players ball in which case they must play three off
the tee
b) select the other ball. This has been moved while it was 'in play' so
they must incur the standard 1 shot penalty under 18-2 and replace the ball
and then play it.
There are other interesting Greensome situations: for example a side hits
their tee shots both of which are lost. Clearly they can both hit
provisional balls but if the do not hit provisional balls, I reckon they
must select a lost ball (interesting concept!!) and the appropriate player
goes back to the tee to play 3.
HTH
--
Sam
He uses statistics as others use lamp posts: for support rather than
illumination
(Remove cap to reply)
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| Re: Greensomes [message #799665 ] |
Mon, 09 January 2006 16:14 |
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Sam wrote:
> "david s-a" <dsantwyk [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:42dnv7F1ilodkU1 [at] individual.net...
>
>>R.V. Kint wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Don't you think that is overly generous considering the penalty under
>>>Rule 18-2a applied in Decisions 27-2b/9 and 27-2b/10?
>>
>>Not really 'generous'....it would appear that both partners clearly
>>intended to play the male partner's ball, but it is only the female that
>>erred in prematurely picking up her ball. I know it is a partnership, and
>>generally (under the RoG) the misdeameanour of one would automatically
>>attach to the other......but in my judgement (as hypothetical member of
>>the Committee) I chose to be 'fair' to them and to the rest of the field
>>by insisting that the pair, having already decided to play the male
>>partner's ball, should be made to continue the play of that ball, or a
>>'s&d' substitute.....because the other ball has been removed from play by
>>picking it up! The above Decisions are irrelevant....and only apply to the
>>official 'Rules of Golf'......and a 'provisional ball'!
>>
>>Perhaps I erred in providing for a conditional penalty attached to whether
>>the ladies ball was picked up 'under instruction' or not. There is no
>>precedence for this.....and it is only a 'game' after all! I don't think
>>the spirit of the game would be enhanced by adding that penalty to the one
>>already imposed for the lost ball.
>>
>>cheers
>>david
>>
>
>
> Greensomes 'rules' are
> 1) both players drive
> 2) they select one ball
> 3) one of them (depending on the format) plays the second shot with the
> selected ball
>
> There is a key question: when does a ball hit from the tee become the "ball
> in play". After the tee shot you have two options:
> a) two balls in play.
> b) no balls in play.
> Its not really logical to have 'no balls' in play (and I suspect you could
> take all sorts of advantages) so I reckon you have 2 balls in play from
> which you must select 1 to continue.
>
> Clearly the team in question had selected the male persons ball and when
> they failed to find it, they have two options
> a) select the male players ball in which case they must play three off
> the tee
> b) select the other ball. This has been moved while it was 'in play' so
> they must incur the standard 1 shot penalty under 18-2 and replace the ball
> and then play it.
>
> There are other interesting Greensome situations: for example a side hits
> their tee shots both of which are lost. Clearly they can both hit
> provisional balls but if the do not hit provisional balls, I reckon they
> must select a lost ball (interesting concept!!) and the appropriate player
> goes back to the tee to play 3.
>
> HTH
>
You are right, Sam. The 'old boys' here used to play a Ryesomes
stableford (a form of greensome first played at Rye, IIRC) on Friday
mornings. I understand they played this version because they were
usually faced with a 150-200 yard carry over thick rough to the fairway
and some of the more elderly were in trouble if they didn't hit the
drive perfectly.
It often happened that both balls were lost. The options were for the
appropriate player to go back and play three off the tee or walk on and
score a 'blob'. More often than not the latter was chosen.
Kenneth
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| Re: Greensomes [message #799680 ] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 17:21 |
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>
>Greensomes 'rules' are
>1) both players drive
>2) they select one ball
>3) one of them (depending on the format) plays the second shot with the
>selected ball
>
>There is a key question: when does a ball hit from the tee become the "ball
>in play". After the tee shot you have two options:
>a) two balls in play.
>b) no balls in play.
>Its not really logical to have 'no balls' in play (and I suspect you could
>take all sorts of advantages) so I reckon you have 2 balls in play from
>which you must select 1 to continue.
>
>Clearly the team in question had selected the male persons ball and when
>they failed to find it, they have two options
>a) select the male players ball in which case they must play three off
>the tee
>b) select the other ball. This has been moved while it was 'in play' so
>they must incur the standard 1 shot penalty under 18-2 and replace the ball
>and then play it.
>
>There are other interesting Greensome situations: for example a side hits
>their tee shots both of which are lost. Clearly they can both hit
>provisional balls but if the do not hit provisional balls, I reckon they
>must select a lost ball (interesting concept!!) and the appropriate player
>goes back to the tee to play 3.
Many thanks for all the comments and suggested options.
Personally I think that the two options, mentioned above - a and b - are
the ones that would be the preferred 'In Equity' solution.
--
John Ditchfield
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