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Sports » rec.sport.boxing » Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective
| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086782] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 02:51 |
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Terry Norris sucked.
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086803 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 05:11 |
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I lost my ass wrote:
> Terry Norris sucked.
"Terrible" Terry Norris
By Patrick Kehoe: After having been decked in the second round and
basically drubbed for four rounds, a desperate Sugar Ray Leonard came
out in the fifth, throwing hard against WBC 154lbs. champion Terry
Norris, to the delight of the Madison Square Garden faithful. The
sparse crowd of 7,458 rose from their seats, most of them imploring
Leonard to break down the agile, combination hitting Norris. The young
title holder was supposed to have already gone gently horizontal into
that good night of another Sugar Ray comeback. After all, Norris had
been hand picked by the thirty-four year-old, five time world champion
- as had the classic New York venue - for the purposes of maximum
credibility to be regained, atmospherics and theatrics ever at the
command of the "Sugar Man."
The problem manifesting itself as a physical and mental beating was
that Terry Norris, three times beaten at twenty-three and given to
mixing it up without the security of a granite chin, was also proving
to be an athletic singularity, a marvel of dynamic motor capacity.
Surging forward in the fifth, Leonard hit mostly air; his legendary
ability to shoeshine an opponent with jarring combinations was being
voided. Furtively, Leonard hit with some and missed with many more.
Finally, Norris dropped his jabbing and dancing, Ali-light defensive
posturing to unleash his signature left jab, right cross, left uppercut
combination. Leonard's tilted for attack head was not snug enough
behind his left shoulder; when glove met the shell of his head,
Leonard's already puffy visage violently jerked toward the ring
lights, as Norris then recalibrated in a micro instant hitting his
boyhood hero's midsection like he would a heavy bag. Thud! At the
bell, Norris turned quickly to his corner. Leonard smiled after him
almost hoping to catch Norris' gaze. At that moment, Leonard knew he
had deceived himself; he'd been dreaming. He really was in the ring
with a slight variation on himself, a boxer-puncher supreme.
No, Terry Norris would not turn out to be Sugar Ray Leonard; but, he
would prove himself an incredible talent, technically inventive,
rigorously trained always, given to mental implosions, yet still a
boxer of athleticism on a level only equaled by Roy Jones Jr. in the
1990s. He'd hit Leonard, while the former champion was splayed on all
fours, having to travel almost 10 feet, with Arthur Merchant trying to
impede him to accomplish the foul. Likewise Norris would hit a downed
Donald Curry after crushing him with a left hook and right hand. The
infamy of his lack of self-control embellished into two title fight
farces by Luis Santana, who took the only way out of a beating at the
fists of Norris he had open to him, on a stretcher. Such was the hot
blood coursing though "Terrible" Terry. Beyond the personal foibles
of losing while dominating, a prime Norris was essentially sublime
against all of his opponents. Undetectable from his rhythmical
combination hitting was his all out power hitting. In full flow, Terry
Norris' punches jolted his intended targets like electrical
discharges.
Though his list of ring victims remains susceptible to critical inquiry
as either beyond their expiration dates or not in his class, that
common point of contentiousness can be asserted to any number of
champions and even some legends of the ring. We need not assign
greatness to Norris, for excellence will do nicely. He was the
consensus main man in the jr. middleweight division for the better part
of the 1990s; his body a pure hybrid of welterweight kinetics and
middleweight strength. His mercurial domination of a division, for the
better part of a decade, tells us something of his over all impact and
quality. No less a champion than Pernell Whitaker essentially avoided
meeting Norris in the ring; manager-trainer Lou Duva had let his
welterweight champion Meldrick Taylor take a beating against Norris and
quietly nixed putting his other superstar Whitaker in against Norris,
at the height of his ring powers in 1992-93. One Felix Trinidad camp
insider admitted, "Norris was the only fight back then Don Felix was
worried about. That's how high Norris' rep was!"
Always physically fit to fight, Norris sometimes forgot to box. The
retelling of his first round 'domination' against then jr.
middleweight bomber Julian Jackson has become a tired clich=E9. For it
was Norris' second round knockout demise that instructed him in what
would be his future ring significance and us in our historical
reckoning of him. Being rendered inert, humbled in a world title fight
rarely represents a turned corner toward the horizon line of
possibility. But it was for Norris. Some fighters get up from
knockdowns to win fights; Norris survived a knockout loss to go on to
dominate his generation of jr. middleweights.
His double left lead was such a searing punch. His ability to even
think of landing a left hook, right hook, right uppercut combination
showed his audacious ability. Even in close early rounds, Norris would
throw an uppercut in situations most veteran fighters would throw a
left hook. Able to hit on the counter going backwards or moving to
collapse defensive postures, Norris' 'X' factor was his reflexive
speed. Normally placid on the outside, Norris burned with momentary
contempt for his opponents on the inside. In ring center, behind his
jolting left lead, Norris was thee counterpunching bomber boxer par
excellence, a coiled spring of potential explosiveness forming
combination hitting, which scored often at and astounding 45 to 50
percent of the time. Many trainers conceded privately, that if Norris
was content on the night to 'just box you' there was almost nothing
his opponents could do to beat him.
But Norris love the moment of decisive confrontation. He often
couldn't check himself. December 18, 1993, former welterweight
champion Simon Brown was being tattooed when he drew a cocky Terry
Norris into a series of inside exchanges, eventually landing a show
closing left hook on the champ. In their May 7, 1994 rematch Norris put
on a masters class of situational boxing, landing clusters of punches
to a befuddled Simon Brown. Norris proved over those twelve sterling
rounds of technical virtuosity in Las Vegas that his vulnerability to
the home run punch was not the full measure of him as a championship
fighter. Nor was the misrule of his unchecked ego.
He could repeat patterns of metronomic combinations, as he did against
a 55-2-2 (34), in shape, Jorge Castro over twelve one sided rounds, in
France. Or search out and destroy title holders like Maurice Blocker,
John Mugabi, Steve Little, Carl Daniels and Vince Pettway and Donald
Curry or just blister opponents with a humbling spread of continuous
fire like Paul Vaden or Quincy Taylor. His projected anger - except
for Paul Vaden - was typically an 'in the moment' determination
to capitalize on his opportunity to compete and win. Trainers and ex
boxers loved to watch Terry Norris turn from boxer to puncher to boxer
again, his technical facility adaptively seamless.
We look back now at Terry Norris believing he was perhaps less than the
sum of his parts and yet we do so understanding how completely he
assailed the fighters he faced. Championship boxers offer us a myriad
of contradictory facets, when we take it upon ourselves to assess them
in and beyond the statistical context of their time, the relational
value of potential ever an agent for conjecture. With Terry Norris
specific weaknesses defining vulnerability always balances against
those dynamic skill sets giving evidence to a memorable capacity in a
boxing ring. Even if his brilliant moments were mitigated, less than
desire's expectation, "Terrible" Terry Norris gave us minor
masterpieces, his polished, uncoiling speed moving to his intended
victim, one of the few embodied figurations of his generation we will
remember, by heart.
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086806 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 06:38 |
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pkehoe wrote:
>
> "Terrible" Terry Norris
> By Patrick Kehoe: After having been decked in the second round and
> basically drubbed for four rounds, a desperate Sugar Ray Leonard came
> out in the fifth, throwing hard against WBC 154lbs...
Hey, Patrick! How have you been? Long time no see in here!!
-mwh
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086921 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 08:49 |
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Hey! Michael! Been keeping buzzzzzy, you know how it is... writing,
working on the house, fatherhood, travelling, coaching soccer, not
drinking as much...
Been quite a while... I have been staving off being burned out :)
Norris was just so clean man... crazed at times but a clean ma-chine...
P
mwhaught wrote:
> pkehoe wrote:
> >
> > "Terrible" Terry Norris
> > By Patrick Kehoe: After having been decked in the second round and
> > basically drubbed for four rounds, a desperate Sugar Ray Leonard came
> > out in the fifth, throwing hard against WBC 154lbs...
>
> Hey, Patrick! How have you been? Long time no see in here!!
>
> -mwh
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086931 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 16:51 |
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pkehoe wrote:
> Hey! Michael! Been keeping buzzzzzy, you know how it is... writing,
> working on the house, fatherhood, travelling, coaching soccer, not
> drinking as much...
>
Know whatcha mean. Daughter is playing her championship game in the
softball league in a few minutes after this post. Everything gets busy
when the kids get bigger.
> Been quite a while... I have been staving off being burned out :)
>
Wise choice. ;-)
> Norris was just so clean man... crazed at times but a clean ma-chine...
>
A little more restraint thrown into his stew of aggression (Hmmm...was
that a Kehoeism?) and it is hard to tell where he might have gone. I
loved watching his skills back in the day.
Again, good to hear from you! Take it easy.
-mwh
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086934 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 18:06 |
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On 15 Jul 2006 07:51:55 -0700, "mwhaught" <mwhaught [at] gmail.com>
enlightened us:
>pkehoe wrote:
>> Hey! Michael! Been keeping buzzzzzy, you know how it is... writing,
>> working on the house, fatherhood, travelling, coaching soccer, not
>> drinking as much...
>>
>
>Know whatcha mean. Daughter is playing her championship game in the
>softball league in a few minutes after this post. Everything gets busy
>when the kids get bigger.
>
>> Been quite a while... I have been staving off being burned out :)
>>
>
>Wise choice. ;-)
>
>> Norris was just so clean man... crazed at times but a clean ma-chine...
>>
>
>A little more restraint thrown into his stew of aggression (Hmmm...was
>that a Kehoeism?) and it is hard to tell where he might have gone. I
>loved watching his skills back in the day.
>
>Again, good to hear from you! Take it easy.
>
> -mwh
Welcome back Patrick! I always hated Terry Norris because of the way
he beat Ray Leonard. I know Leonard should not have taken that bout
and Norris was a terrific fighter but damn anyway!
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir'
without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"
-- Homer Simpson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086937 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 18:53 |
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"SkippyPB" <swiegand [at] neo.rr.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:mp3ib2l7htckfldb1uqngd3u23dvju6otf [at] 4ax.com...
> Welcome back Patrick! I always hated Terry Norris because of the way
> he beat Ray Leonard. I know Leonard should not have taken that bout
> and Norris was a terrific fighter but damn anyway!
And I loved that Leonard got his ass kicked by Norris and by Camacho. I
used to be a huge SRL fan, but when he started using his star power to help
him dictate what took place in the ring (i.e. 12 rounds versus Hagler and
168 lbs. versus Lalonde), my love for him went south. I recall being bummed
a bit when he retired and excited when he came back to fight Kevin Howard.
Then came the Hagler fight and it changed everything, even though I was a
bigger fan of Leonard than of Hagler.
I recall seeing the sports page in Quito, Ecuador (which means it was 1991)
saying how Norris had kicked Leonard's butt all over the ring. Yes, Ray
Leonard should not have taken that bout. I do commend him for his not
giving up, but, from what I saw of the bout, he was never in it.
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086966 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 01:21 |
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SkippyPB wrote:
>
> ...I always hated Terry Norris because of the way
> he beat Ray Leonard. I know Leonard should not have taken that bout
> and Norris was a terrific fighter but damn anyway!
>
I was going to respond with how I came to root against SRL in most of
his later fights but Sanity beat me to it.
SRL was one of the great ones, but I hated his later career
manipulations.
-mwh
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086970 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 01:42 |
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"mwhaught" <mwhaught [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153005709.734027.240110 [at] b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> SkippyPB wrote:
>>
>> ...I always hated Terry Norris because of the way
>> he beat Ray Leonard. I know Leonard should not have taken that bout
>> and Norris was a terrific fighter but damn anyway!
>
> I was going to respond with how I came to root against SRL in most of
> his later fights but Sanity beat me to it.
>
> SRL was one of the great ones, but I hated his later career
> manipulations.
Yeah, but as far as Terry Norris goes, there's also the "great" Santana
fight trilogy. Never mind SRL, those DQs really sored me on Norris.
Undeniable ability, legendary unpreictable chin... and at times a total
idiot.
....pablo
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086972 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 02:06 |
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> I was going to respond with how I came to root against SRL in most of
> his later fights but Sanity beat me to it.
>
> SRL was one of the great ones, but I hated his later career
> manipulations.
>
> -mwh
>
I don't actually know how I feel about the career of Sugar Ray Leonard. You
can't call the guy overrated (he beat Hagler or it was at least a Draw). And
I have Hagler the #1 middleweight of all time with quality wins over Thomas
Hearns and Roberto Duran.
I would have loved to see Leonard fight:
Ike Quartey
Pernell Whitaker
Oscar De La Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Could he beat all those guys? Maybe. The power of Trinidad and the jab of
Quartey could have posed problems for Leonard. Whitaker had perhaps the best
p4p defense in history, just ask Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar De La Hoya.
Scar TKO
Scar TKO
"mwhaught" <mwhaught [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153005709.734027.240110 [at] b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> SkippyPB wrote:
>>
>> ...I always hated Terry Norris because of the way
>> he beat Ray Leonard. I know Leonard should not have taken that bout
>> and Norris was a terrific fighter but damn anyway!
>>
>
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| Re: Terrible Terry Norris a Retrospective [message #1086991 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 05:45 |
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TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
>
> I don't actually know how I feel about the career of Sugar Ray Leonard. You
> can't call the guy overrated (he beat Hagler or it was at least a Draw). And
> I have Hagler the #1 middleweight of all time with quality wins over Thomas
> Hearns and Roberto Duran.
>
> I would have loved to see Leonard fight:
>
> Ike Quartey
> Pernell Whitaker
> Oscar De La Hoya
> Felix Trinidad
>
> Could he beat all those guys? Maybe. The power of Trinidad and the jab of
> Quartey could have posed problems for Leonard. Whitaker had perhaps the best
> p4p defense in history, just ask Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar De La Hoya.
>
Maybe? Against those guys, I'd put my money on a 1979-81 SRL without a
second thought.
Whitaker and ODLH were at their best below welterweight. Quartey and
Trinidad had nothing that SRL could not solve.
-mwh
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